The dvaita/advaita debate revisited!

[Giri]

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Ken Stuart wrote:

>
> >        Ramakrishna did say that 'One who attains nirvikalpa samadhi dies
> >in 21 days.' This has been rejected by some including Ramana.
>
> You left out all the following comments and context.
> He said that and then said that some come down from this state because "God
> retains in them the 'ego of Knowledge' or the 'ego of Devotion' so that they
> may teach men.... After attaining samadhi some souls of their own accord keep
> the 'ego of Knowledge'.  But that ego does not create any attachment.  It is
> like a line drawn on the water. ".

        Well here is where I am quoting from. 'The gospel of sri ramakrishna'
(abridged, 1980) page 213,

'The brahmajnani directly perceives brahman. But in that state his body
does not last many days. He remains unconscious of the outer world. If
milk is poured in his mouth, it runs out. Dwelling on this plane of
consciousness, he gives up his body in 21 days. That is the condition of
the brahmajnani. But yours is the path of devotion. That is a very good
and easy path.'

        After 20 sentences or so, he says again 'Generally the body does
not remain alive after the attainment of samadhi. The only exceptions are
sages like Narada, who live in order to bring spiritual light to others;
the same thing is true of Divine Incarnations, like chaitanya.'

        Ok, it is my feeling (and I may be very much wrong) is that the
Brahmajnana is *everyone's* natural state. Should the death of
the body be dependent on jnana ? I am curious to know what the advaita
position on this issue is.

> To be more precise, Ramakrishna is said to have first followed the path of
> bhakti to divine realization.   Then he followed various other paths, and
> ascertained that they led to the same end.   More specifics on how this could
> work can probably be found in his writings and/or those of his disciples.

        I presume you mean divine realization as different from
brahmajnana. From the same book as above, page 311,

'What is samadhi ? It is the complete merging of the mind in
God-consciousness. The jnani experiences jada samadhi, in which no trace
of 'I' is left. The samadhi attained through the path of bhakti is called
'chetana samadhi.' In this samadhi there remains the consciousness of 'I'
- the 'I' of the servant-and-master relationship, of the lover-and
beloved relationship, of the enjoyer-and-Food relationship. God is the
Master, the devotee is the servant. God is the Beloved; the devotee is
the lover. God is the food; and the devotee is the enjoyer. 'I don't want
to BE sugar. I want to eat it.'
        'God keeps a little of 'I' in his devotee even after giving him
the Knowledge of Brahman. That 'I' is the 'I of the devotee,' the 'I of
the jnani.' Through that 'I' the devotee enjoys the infinite play of God...
.....(after a few sentences)..Formerly believers in God with form used to
visit me a great deal. Then the modern [members of Brahmo Samaj, who
believe in the formless Brahman] began to arrive. During that period I
used to remain unconsciousness, I would say to the Divine Mother, 'O
Mother, please don't give me Brahmajnana.'

**

        Though it looks like I am questioning Ramakrishna's statements
with respect to advaita, it is only my intention to understand certain
things better. I have the greatest respect for Ramakrishna, and even if I
had an ounce of Ramakrishna's Bhakti towards the Divine Mother then I
would be quiet and be still.

Namaste.