[Advaita-l] More records - last part

[Satish Arigela]

Earlier mail did not come through because it is too long as I pasted a long 
article.

namaste Senani ji,

>whatever be the reasons, over a thousand 
>years, over vast tracts of land, we the sanaatanadharmis have failed to arrest 
>the attack on our way of life using the mantraSAstra in whichever capacity.

You seem to think that I take a position that mantrashAstra is the solution or 
partial solution for the ills
of our society. Let me assert that I do not beleive so. mantrashAstra does not 
solve the 

problems of Hindu-s or anybody else. It is a just a tool like anything else. It 
is just that it works a little  
differently compared to other tools. **If the society lacks the will to preserve 
their traditions nothing will help not tantra/mantrashAstra not any other 
shAstra.**

>Against this, if you choose to believe that some successful prayogas 
>have been done, I can only commend your devotion (I am at a lower or different 
>stage of indifference).

This is the main difference. There is no need for a special belief. We dont 
believe in all this...here believe in the sense of believing something 
unseen/unknown. As i said, tantra/mantra shAstra has no place for beliefs, 
superstitions, sentiments and the like. A tAntrika tests the system and if found 
to be bogus he discards and moves on.

I sense an underlying assumption in you that, those who believe in the efficacy 
of mantra prayoga-s, do so just because some tantra books say so or some swamiji 
or upAsaka said so or some inscriptions mention so...A tAntrika will without 
batting an eyelid trash a book even if it says Ishvara uvAcha, if he finds out 
that the rituals in the book are bogus and produces no results. mantra shAstra 
is result oriented..it is very similar to yoga(haTha/rAja - Hence the 
prescription in devI gIta saying one should practice mantra diligently and 
when tired of it and should take to yoga and vice versa). Tantra may not be your 
interesting subject, but  the english translation of shiva chandra vidyArNava's 
work known as Principles of Tantra in two volumes may clear the mind of some 
assumptions.

>A prominent (and retired) IAS officer who also functioned as the EO of TTD 
>(Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanam) has written - to the effect - that Sanjay Gandhi 
>
>died because Chenna Reddy (a former Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh, a Congress 
>
>one) got a prayoga made to that effect. I do not believe it.

Hmm..I have nothing to say.. people have tendency to cook up stories. At a 
personal level I doubt it...unless there is any some sort of indication/evidence 
to show such factors are involved. Everybody knows how good are our helicopters 
are maintained.

>How I wish the 18th century chief of Vijayanagaram, Sitaramaraju, who resisted 
>the increase in 
>
>annual tax to British and then fought them with swords (the battle lasted about 

>45 minutes, in 1794 - see page 325, Vol. 3 of Arudra's samagra aandhra 
>saahityam, Telugu Academy, 2004) had the sense and wherewithal to invoke a 
>similar kratu

:-) Let me state again that, *kratu's/homa-s do not bring victories or get 
things done*. No. Not at all. This concept is more subtle/abstract.

If it is of any help to you, you might go through the following article by Colin 
Low, a kabbalah ritualist.

But I bet the moderators' hands are itching to caution me about all the 
diversion i made till now. :-)

You are welcome to reply to this to the list but unless very important, I will 
take any further conversation offline.

Regarding shraddhA, it is certainly not my intention to make people of shankara 
vedAnta subscribe to what I said. I only meant to indicate how students of 
tantra/mantra shAstra take it and the rationale for doing so.

Regards

Regarding this article below: I do not subscribe to everything that is written 
here but pasting it as it can provide clarity on some issues: Some tips: In 
addition to the meanings of the sentences, observe the tone, the attitude, the 
outlook with which some sentences are formed. That may give some clue.