[Advaita-l] Pitru Paksha Questions

[kman]

 Om,

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 20:59:16 +0530 "Praveen R. Bhat" <bhatpraveen at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>> I agree, So why create more reverse bondage. The kid did not have a
choice
>> in being born
>> to these parents.


>The kid is born to those parents very much by choice!! The prior births
have
>caused sancita karma, out of which a particular prArabdha karma results in
>this birth. Its not by random or by choice of the parents. In fact, the
>parents have choice only for union, without knowing if it would result in
>birth of the child, how could it be their choice? Also read some other
>response in this very thread (sorry I forgot who wrote it) mentioning a
>story that the parents are the kids and kids are the parents in various
>births.
In this day and age where abortions and invitro are so common, it is hard to
believe this theory.
This does not make any sense. "Child is the father of the man" concept I can
understand and appreciate. This again proved that child is not indebted but
the parent is for the child to bring Jnana to the parent. The child's debt
is only
for the good care and upbringing to their parents. we need not force them in
the garb of tradition to do shrAddha  after
death.

>> We also know that acts of karma are done by an individual
>> for his/her own
>> selfish happiness, so this debt that your talking about is mithya, infact
>> imho the parents are
>> indebted to their kids for bringing them in to this bondage.
>>

>This is an error, there being no shAstra evidence and, if I may add with
>apologies, sounds like a modern irresponsible thankless argument of
>children. If anything, as said in my earlier mail, the debt is to parents
>for having provided an opportunity of another life for the kid to
>realize/enlighten oneself in!
That is probably less than 1% of the whole population in India (for that
matter any where in the world)  that a parent actually approaches having a
kid with spirituality in mind that they are providing an opportunity for
another life. If that was the actual case we will not have this population
explotion. It was pure  selfish happiness. . How come usually large hindu
families are now becoming one or two kid only families now, It is thanks to
Birth control.

>> For a non advaitin what you say makes sense. Advaitin should be able to
>> make
>> the discrimination, right?
>>

>No sir, advaitin or not, it makes sense for all baddha-jIvas, meaning ones
>who are not realized. Advaitin can discriminate, but one who discriminates
>is not a j~nAni overnight, right? So if his worry is about laukika things
>considering himself the jIva with limiting body, mind, intellect, how will
>it go away after death? It will remain, causing another birth. Such a jIva,
>without a body factually struggles for another birth to pursue his sAdhana.
>Thats another worry now, because he doesn't even have a body to do his
>sAdhana! :) He prays to be given an opportunity to be born, asking his
to-be
>parents, perhaps!
Since I question the basis of this you can please let me know what
scriptures I can read to understand this.

But knowing that
>> there is no birth and death, why sraardha,
>>

>Knowing that there's no birth and death, do we ask why eat, earn, sleep,
etc
>now? For the same reason, shrAddha, offering respect, food, etc to pitR.
This is  taking out of context. We are talking about pitr that you cannot
prove that exists and I believe that merged with Brahman and so do not need
Sraddha, which you cannot dispute. A rule has to be universal, what happens
to pitrs of rest of the world?

>> I need to complete the responsinility to our kids, so until then I have
to
>> keep my job, car etc as it helps in my pursuit of my spiritual growth
>> But the srarda part clashes with the idea of advaitha. I am trying to
>> understand why it was
>> prescribed this way.
>
>Very interesting argument. Makes no sense though and contradicts, when read
>with your argument immediately preceding. If knowing that there's no birth
&
>death, how is suddenly that one has responsibility to kids, needs a job &
>car and not only that, finds these laukika things helping pursuit of
>spiritual growth!

This is again as I explined above out of context. I can see my kids, where
as I do not see my Pitrs. They live in memory
which as per my spiritual understanding is mithya. I do miss them and do
prayers and charity in their name which I deem
more appropriate than shrAddha. or what I do is shrAddha  in my mind. Some
one in our past started this ritual which was great for that time. We got to
evolve with the time also IMHO.

>My dear Sir, its not shrAddha part that clashes with
>advaita, but laukika part. shrAddha can be done as a karma yoga as the
>result is also adRShTa/ invisible, but how can one keep a car as karma
yoga?
>Not that there's anything wrong with it, but saying that it helps pursuit
of
>spiritual growth is stressing the point of laukika necessity for some into
>spiritual domain. Apologies, but IMHO, you have it the other way around.

Not very convincing.
-- 
-------------------------------------
Kman