[Advaita-l] Difficulty with Akhandakara Vrtti

[Aurobind Padiyath]

PS:-The mirage example is for the view point of the vyavaharika level and
the bubble is for the paramarthika

Aurobind Padiyath
+91-9689755499
On 22 Jun 2015 15:30, "Aurobind Padiyath" <aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Sri Chandramouliji,
>
> No need to be confused.
>
> First I said the word vritti is being used for want of a better word. Here
> the word vritti is being used as that which substituted all other vritti
> even though it is not a vritti by itself.
>
> Second I said it is a state and not a vritti with the above in mind. But
> as explained any state has validity only in vyavaharika level, but this is
> not a vyavaharika state but a paramarthika avastha and the word avastha is
> for explaining from the vyavaharika point of view. Because once known there
> is no return to vyavaharika state. Vyavahara seen only by those who are
> aspiring to get there, but not who has known the "to be known". From the
> view point of one who has known the Truth as Sathyam Jnanam Anantham, there
> is nothing more to be known and he becomes a "krthakrthyah" or one who has
> nothing more to be done. His Vyavahara is not a Vyavahara from his point of
> view but only from those who see him from Vyavahara. It's called an
> Aabhsam.
> So when you mix up both these views they may appear to contradictory.
>
> For the one who thinks a mirage is water, he will think that the one who
> knows the truth of mirage and warns the others there is no water it is an
> Aabhsam, is not telling the truth.  He is also seeing apparently water
> only. But the one who knows it is not water in spite he also has all the
> same appearance of water, knows the truth and do not get deluded.
> Same way when all that appears as many is in essence only one. For bubble
> floating on sea can see waves, froth and the deep waters, but knows all are
> water including itself and there is nothing other than that.
>
> I've used some examples for clarity but they also have limitations.
>
> Pranams,
>
> Aurobind Padiyath
> On 22 Jun 2015 14:49, "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Sri Aurobind Padiyath,
>>
>>
>>  I am somewhat surprised. With your current statement
>>
>>
>>  << You are right when you say that a state cannot be beret of both
>> thought and thoughtlessness. For "a state" is valid only from the
>> vyavaharika point of view and the very nature of it is built on thoughts
>> and intervening absence before the next one >> ,
>>
>>
>>  your statements in the previous mails
>>
>>
>>  << "akhandakara vritti"
>> Akhanda meaning unbroken, Akara meaning (here) Swaroopa,  Vritti (here)
>> meaning continues,  (not thoughts).
>> So, that continuous Swaroopa avastha which displaced the earlier wave like
>> thoughts of vishaya which were arising and subsiding including that of
>> deep
>> sleep like state where visheshvijnana absence is felt, because even deep
>> sleep
>> is not continuous, is the true state of akhandakara vritti. >>
>>
>>
>>  and
>>
>>
>>  << Having explained that, let me try to come to the akandakara vritti.
>> The pramana for that state is what is told as " Atma vyatirekena nasti
>> kinchit". Even thought or thoughtlessness are not applicable to that state
>> where the mind cannot reach nor words can explain. >> ,
>>
>>
>>  both become invalid because in both “ akhandakara vritti “ is termed
>> such a “ state “ only. Kindly clarify.
>>
>>
>>  Pranams and Regards
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Aurobind Padiyath <
>> aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Sri Chandramouliji,
>>> You are right when you say that a state cannot be beret of both thought
>>> and thoughtlessness. For "a state" is valid only from the vyavaharika point
>>> of view and the very nature of it is built on thoughts and intervening
>>> absence before the next one. In Paramarthata "Atma vyatirekena kinchit
>>> naasti ".
>>> Neither the original Upanishads nor the Bhashya ever mentions the term
>>> "akandakara vritti". This has crept in from later commentators attempt to
>>> explain the inexplicable.
>>> Even though the word akandakara is not mentioned you can get a clarity
>>> if you can go thru the Bhashya on Brhadaranyaka where detailed explanation
>>> of " Brahmaivedam sarvam" is being discussed in the beginning.
>>> Pranams,
>>> Aurobind Padiyath
>>> On 22 Jun 2015 13:58, "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Sri Aurobind Padiyath Ji,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks for the clarification that you are not referring to
>>>> nirvikalpa. It removes a major impediment in progressing the discussion. A
>>>> great relief.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Once we talk of “ akhandakara vritti “ and “ a state “ , we are in
>>>> the Vyavaharika plane only and not in Paramarthika plane. But the rest of
>>>> your note mostly pertain to the Paramarthika plane. It cannot be maintained
>>>> << Even thought or thoughtlessness are not applicable to that state  >>
>>>> . A “ state “ must necessarily be either with thought ( as in jagrat or
>>>> svapna ) or without thought ( as in sushupti or samadhai ) . A “ state “
>>>> cannot be bereft of both. Kindly clarify.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Also please give a reference to where this concept of “ akhandakara
>>>> vritti “ is explained so that I can study and better understand the context
>>>> in which it has been explained.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Pranans and Regards
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Aurobind Padiyath <
>>>> aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sri Chandramouliji,
>>>>> Hari Om!!!
>>>>> Nirvikapla stage is not culminating one and hence cannot be Brahma
>>>>> Jnana avastha. Just because you have no vikalpa does not mean you have
>>>>> knowledge. You have no vikalpa even during deep sleep. The difference
>>>>> between the two is one is involuntary and the other is a result of forced
>>>>> control of mind.
>>>>> Having explained that, let me try to come to the akandakara vritti.
>>>>> The pramana for that state is what is told as " Atma vyatirekena nasti
>>>>> kinchit". Even thought or thoughtlessness are not applicable to that state
>>>>> where the mind cannot reach nor words can explain. But it is not
>>>>> nothingness. It or that state is simply an "Is" or what we call in Sanskrit
>>>>> as asti. To what or whom can that state explain when there is none other
>>>>> than just itself in a state of being?
>>>>> I do not know if I can ever explain it in words. It is where all
>>>>> thoughts become knowledge just as where all ingredients of a yagna becomes
>>>>> only fire in the yagnakund.
>>>>> Hari Om!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Aurobind Padiyath
>>>>> On 21 Jun 2015 21:08, "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Sri Aurobind Padiyath Ji,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you kindly clarify if this state you are mentioning is a '
>>>>>> thoughtless state " or a " thought with unitary knowledge " . The question
>>>>>> is genuine as many interpret nirvikalpa samadhi ( thoughtless state ) also
>>>>>> as Brahma Jnana.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chandramouli
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Aurobind Padiyath via Advaita-l <
>>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hari Om,
>>>>>>> "akhandakara vritti"
>>>>>>> Akhanda meaning unbroken, Akara meaning (here) Swaroopa,  Vritti
>>>>>>> (here)
>>>>>>> meaning continues,  (not thoughts).
>>>>>>> So, that continuous Swaroopa avastha which displaced the earlier
>>>>>>> wave like
>>>>>>> thoughts of vishaya which were arising and subsiding including that
>>>>>>> of deep
>>>>>>> sleep like state where visheshvijnana absence is felt, because even
>>>>>>> deep sleep
>>>>>>> is not continuous, is the true state of akhandakara vritti. It is
>>>>>>> called a
>>>>>>> vritti as a misnomer due to the absence of a better word.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hari om!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aurobind Padiyath
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>