[Advaita-l] Difficulty with Akhandakara Vrtti

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Aurobind Padiyatji - PraNAms

Provided a crisp explanation. 

vRitti in a general sense can be considered as modification of the mind, while in particular sense as thought. In deep sleep state, there is akhandaakaara ajnanaa vRitit - - unchanging - I do not know - a homogeneous unchanging vRitti - a modification of mind due to its folded state expressed as the absence of subject-object duality. 

You have taken aptly the mirage water example. Iswara sRishTi is still  there, and the perception of the plurality and the subject-object duality is still there just as perception of the so-called waters of the mirage. Yet there is akhanda jnaana vRitti that there is no waters in the mirage waters. Thus jagat's mithyaatvam is understood in spite of vyaavaharically there is an apparent plurality. 

Akhandaakaara jnaana vRitti is constant or continuous awareness or knowledge that I am sat chit ananda in spite of apparent plurality at transactional level. In that sense in contrast to akhandaakaara ajnaana vRitti in the deep sleep state expressed as I do not know - it is akhanda jnaana vRitti of swaruupa jnaanam as aham brahmaasmi.

Bhagavana Ramana puts this as - aham aham taya, spurati hRit swayam, parama puurNa sat. - I am - I am - I am - that spontaneously raises in the mind but this I am in contrast to previous I am, paramam and puurNam and Sat swaruupam. 

Hari Om!
Sadananda 


 

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/22/15, Aurobind Padiyath via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Difficulty with Akhandakara Vrtti
 To: "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
 Cc: "advaita-l at lists advaita-vedanta. org" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Monday, June 22, 2015, 6:00 AM
 
 Dear Sri
 Chandramouliji,
 
 No need to
 be confused.
 
 First I said
 the word vritti is being used for want of a better word.
 Here
 the word vritti is being used as that
 which substituted all other vritti
 even
 though it is not a vritti by itself.
 
 Second I said it is a state and not a vritti
 with the above in mind. But as
 explained any
 state has validity only in vyavaharika level, but this is
 not
 a vyavaharika state but a paramarthika
 avastha and the word avastha is for
 explaining from the vyavaharika point of view.
 Because once known there is
 no return to
 vyavaharika state. Vyavahara seen only by those who are
 aspiring to get there, but not who has known
 the "to be known". From the
 view
 point of one who has known the Truth as Sathyam Jnanam
 Anantham, there
 is nothing more to be known
 and he becomes a "krthakrthyah" or one who has
 nothing more to be done. His Vyavahara is not a
 Vyavahara from his point of
 view but only
 from those who see him from Vyavahara. It's called an
 Aabhsam.
 So when you mix up
 both these views they may appear to contradictory.
 
 For the one who thinks a
 mirage is water, he will think that the one who
 knows the truth of mirage and warns the others
 there is no water it is an
 Aabhsam, is not
 telling the truth.  He is also seeing apparently water
 only. But the one who knows it is not water in
 spite he also has all the
 same appearance of
 water, knows the truth and do not get deluded.
 Same way when all that appears as many is in
 essence only one. For bubble
 floating on sea
 can see waves, froth and the deep waters, but knows all
 are
 water including itself and there is
 nothing other than that.
 
 I've used some examples for clarity but
 they also have limitations.
 
 Pranams,
 
 Aurobind Padiyath
 On 22 Jun 2015 14:49,
 "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 
 > Dear Sri
 Aurobind Padiyath,
 >
 >
 >  I am somewhat
 surprised. With your current statement
 >
 >
 >  << You are right when you say that
 a state cannot be beret of both
 > thought
 and thoughtlessness. For "a state" is valid only
 from the
 > vyavaharika point of view and
 the very nature of it is built on thoughts
 > and intervening absence before the next
 one >> ,
 >
 >
 >  your statements in the previous mails
 >
 >
 >  << "akhandakara
 vritti"
 > Akhanda meaning unbroken,
 Akara meaning (here) Swaroopa,  Vritti (here)
 > meaning continues,  (not thoughts).
 > So, that continuous Swaroopa avastha which
 displaced the earlier wave like
 >
 thoughts of vishaya which were arising and subsiding
 including that of deep
 > sleep like state
 where visheshvijnana absence is felt, because even deep
 > sleep
 > is not
 continuous, is the true state of akhandakara vritti.
 >>
 >
 >
 >  and
 >
 >
 >  << Having
 explained that, let me try to come to the akandakara
 vritti.
 > The pramana for that state is
 what is told as " Atma vyatirekena nasti
 > kinchit". Even thought or
 thoughtlessness are not applicable to that state
 > where the mind cannot reach nor words can
 explain. >> ,
 >
 >
 >  both become invalid
 because in both “ akhandakara vritti “ is termed
 > such a “ state “ only. Kindly
 clarify.
 >
 >
 >  Pranams and Regards
 >
 > On Mon, Jun 22, 2015
 at 2:18 PM, Aurobind Padiyath <
 > aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >> Dear
 Sri Chandramouliji,
 >> You are right
 when you say that a state cannot be beret of both thought
 >> and thoughtlessness. For "a
 state" is valid only from the vyavaharika point
 >> of view and the very nature of it is
 built on thoughts and intervening
 >>
 absence before the next one. In Paramarthata "Atma
 vyatirekena kinchit
 >> naasti
 ".
 >> Neither the original
 Upanishads nor the Bhashya ever mentions the term
 >> "akandakara vritti". This
 has crept in from later commentators attempt to
 >> explain the inexplicable.
 >> Even though the word akandakara is not
 mentioned you can get a clarity if
 >>
 you can go thru the Bhashya on Brhadaranyaka where detailed
 explanation of
 >> " Brahmaivedam
 sarvam" is being discussed in the beginning.
 >> Pranams,
 >>
 Aurobind Padiyath
 >> On 22 Jun 2015
 13:58, "H S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
 >> wrote:
 >>
 >>> Dear Sri Aurobind Padiyath Ji,
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>  Thanks for the clarification
 that you are not referring to nirvikalpa.
 >>> It removes a major impediment in
 progressing the discussion. A great
 >>> relief.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>  Once we talk of “ akhandakara
 vritti “ and “ a state “ , we are in the
 >>> Vyavaharika plane only and not in
 Paramarthika plane. But the rest of your
 >>> note mostly pertain to the
 Paramarthika plane. It cannot be maintained << Even
 >>> thought or thoughtlessness are not
 applicable to that state  >> . A “
 >>> state “ must necessarily be
 either with thought ( as in jagrat or svapna )
 >>> or without thought ( as in
 sushupti or samadhai ) . A “ state “ cannot be
 >>> bereft of both. Kindly clarify.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>  Also please give a reference to
 where this concept of “ akhandakara
 >>> vritti “ is explained so that I
 can study and better understand the context
 >>> in which it has been explained.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>  Pranans and Regards
 >>>
 >>> On
 Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Aurobind Padiyath <
 >>> aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> Sri Chandramouliji,
 >>>> Hari Om!!!
 >>>> Nirvikapla stage is not
 culminating one and hence cannot be Brahma
 >>>> Jnana avastha. Just because
 you have no vikalpa does not mean you have
 >>>> knowledge. You have no vikalpa
 even during deep sleep. The difference
 >>>> between the two is one is
 involuntary and the other is a result of forced
 >>>> control of mind.
 >>>> Having explained that, let me
 try to come to the akandakara vritti.
 >>>> The pramana for that state is
 what is told as " Atma vyatirekena nasti
 >>>> kinchit". Even thought or
 thoughtlessness are not applicable to that state
 >>>> where the mind cannot reach
 nor words can explain. But it is not
 >>>> nothingness. It or that state
 is simply an "Is" or what we call in Sanskrit
 >>>> as asti. To what or whom can
 that state explain when there is none other
 >>>> than just itself in a state of
 being?
 >>>> I do not know if I
 can ever explain it in words. It is where all
 >>>> thoughts become knowledge just
 as where all ingredients of a yagna becomes
 >>>> only fire in the yagnakund.
 >>>> Hari Om!!!
 >>>>
 >>>> Aurobind Padiyath
 >>>> On 21 Jun 2015 21:08, "H
 S Chandramouli" <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
 >>>> wrote:
 >>>>
 >>>>> Dear Sri Aurobind Padiyath
 Ji,
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Can you kindly clarify if
 this state you are mentioning is a '
 >>>>> thoughtless state "
 or a " thought with unitary knowledge " . The
 question
 >>>>> is genuine as
 many interpret nirvikalpa samadhi ( thoughtless state )
 also
 >>>>> as Brahma
 Jnana.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Regards
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Chandramouli
 >>>>>
 >>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at
 6:05 PM, Aurobind Padiyath via Advaita-l <
 >>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 wrote:
 >>>>>
 >>>>>> Hari Om,
 >>>>>> "akhandakara
 vritti"
 >>>>>>
 Akhanda meaning unbroken, Akara meaning (here) Swaroopa, 
 Vritti
 >>>>>> (here)
 >>>>>> meaning continues, 
 (not thoughts).
 >>>>>> So,
 that continuous Swaroopa avastha which displaced the earlier
 wave
 >>>>>> like
 >>>>>> thoughts of vishaya
 which were arising and subsiding including that
 >>>>>> of deep
 >>>>>> sleep like state where
 visheshvijnana absence is felt, because even
 >>>>>> deep sleep
 >>>>>> is not continuous, is
 the true state of akhandakara vritti. It is
 >>>>>> called a
 >>>>>> vritti as a misnomer
 due to the absence of a better word.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Hari om!!!
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Aurobind Padiyath
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 _______________________________________________
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 >>>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>
 >
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