[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Only Self knowledge gives liberation...

[H S Chandramouli]

Dear Sri Vivek,


 You wrote << At the same time there have been countless saints that
attained liberation by doing long and intense mantra japa or other
practices and it doesn't seem they studied Vedanta at all. >>


 and


 << Still some doubt is there. As Shankara says, "Meditation can not give
moksha" neither can any other practices except Jnana.

You said that Self knowledge will dawn after intense meditation.

Somehow it seems like a slight contradiction from Shankara's words. >> .


 Sri Bhagavatpada has left absolutely no doubts that , according to him ,
Moksha can be attained only through Jnanam. But he also mentions that this
Jnanam can be attained either here and now , in this birth itself , called
Jivan Mukti or later after reaching Brahma Loka called Krama Mukti . Your
first observation above could very well refer to the latter category . They
are figuratively considered as having “ attained liberation “ on casting
away the current body as those who reach Brahma Loka by this method are not
considered to return to this Loka any time later , but attain Moksha at the
end of the Kalpa from Brahma Loka itself.


 Regards


On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Vivek via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Still some doubt is there. As Shankara says, "Meditation can not give
> moksha" neither can any other practices except Jnana.
>
> You said that Self knowledge will dawn after intense meditation.
>
> Somehow it seems like a slight contradiction from Shankara's words.
>
> Anyone wants to elaborate on this?
>
> Vivek.
>
>
>
> > On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:00 PM, RAMESH RAMANAN <rameshramanan at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Sri Vivekji,
> >
> > Pranams,
> >
> > Through the practice of intense meditation, chittha shuddhi takes place
> and in that state, self-knowledge dawns automatically, just as when one
> drives away the marshy substance, the clear water below, which remained
> hidden due to the marshy substance, becomes clearly visible. Or, as when a
> dark room is lit up, the darkness disappears, the chittha shuddhi leads
> directly to self-realization, for which a study of Vedantic literature is
> not required. Further, Sri Ramana Maharishi has said that he may have
> completed most of his sadhanas in his previous birth,  which has fructified
> in the current birth. This could apply to the saints, who do not seem to
> have read vedantic literature in their present birth. Sri Ramakrishna was
> almost an illiterate person, who also forgot how to sign his own name,
> though he did attend some schooling. His knowledge of Nirvikalpa Samadhi
> was through direct experience. He may also have finished all of his
> spiritual readings in an earlier birth and in this birth, that past reading
> may have speeded up the process of his self-realization.
> >
> > I think there is a saying in Sanskrit: to the effect: "One should always
> try to upgrade one's learning. Though it may not be beneficial in this
> birth, it is bound to be beneficial in a later births." This could apply to
> both secular and spiritual knowledge. We see so many child prodigies and
> some children have been recorded for their ability to recollect their past
> lives. The child prodigies may have completed their education in their
> previous lives and may have acquired success in retaining such learning
> through intense efforts, which fructify in a later birth.
> >
> > Namaskars once again, Ramesh Ramanan.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Monday, 29 June 2015, 17:32, Vivek via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hari Om,
> >
> > Shankara says that only through self knowledge you can become
> enlightened and that puja, japa, selfless service, meditation etc can not
> enlighten you. They can purify you, make your mind calm and thin out your
> ego but not  give you liberation.
> >
> > At the same time there have been countless saints that attained
> liberation by doing long and intense mantra japa or other practices and it
> doesn't seem they studied Vedanta at all.
> >
> > This has created a conflict in my mind.
> >
> > Can someone shed some light on this?p
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Vivek
> >
> >
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