[Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46

Durga Janaswamy janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com
Fri Sep 11 19:17:49 CDT 2015


Hari Om,
Pranams.

Is there any shruti pramana for this type of catagorization?

thanks and regards
-- durga prasad

________________________________
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 20:58:30 +0100 
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's  
> Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46 
> From: agnimile at gmail.com 
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org; janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com 
>  
>  
> Yes, the question doesn't arise for us, because we say the snake  
> doesn't exist. 
>  
> But when asked, we have to explain its appearance - and the answer we  
> give depends on the qualifications of the questioner. 
>  
> If the questioner is a madhyama adhikAri, we say yes it appears, but  
> the existence that you see is not the snake, but Brahman. The snake  
> does not really exist. 
>  
> To an uttama adhikAri, we simply say it doesn't exist. 
>  
> Regards, 
> Venkatraghavan 
>  
> On 8 Sep 2015 20:40, "Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l"  
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>  
> wrote: 
> Hari Om, 
> Pranams 
>  
> When the snake itself does not exist, where is the question of dependency? 
>  
> thanks and regards 
> -- durga prasad 
>  
> ________________________________ 
> > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 09:14:55 +0100 
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's 
> > Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46 
> > From: agnimile at gmail.com<mailto:agnimile at gmail.com> 
> > To:  
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>;  
> janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com<mailto:janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com> 
> > CC: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com<mailto:v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> 
> > 
> > 
> > Namaste Sri Durga Prasad. 
> > 
> > Dvaitins hold Veda to be apaurusheya too. 
> > For advaitins, Veda are nishvAsitam, the breath of Ishvara (see 
> > BrihadAraNyaka reference below). They are apaurusheya and anAdi for us 
> > too. 
> > 
> > "Asya mahato bhUtasya nishvAsitam etad yad rigvedo yajurvedah samavedo 
> > atharvAngirasah", Br. Up. 2.4.10 
> > 
> > However, from a paramArtha drishti, no vastu, not even any of the anAdi 
> > vastu's, has any differientated existence from Brahman. The vedAs, like 
> > jIva, jagat and Ishvara, are non different from Brahman, and have no 
> > independent existence outside Brahman. 
> > 
> > Regards 
> > Venkatraghavan 
> > 
> > On 8 Sep 2015 01:30, "Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l" 
> >  
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org><mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>> 
> > wrote: 
> > Hari Om, 
> > Pranams. 
> > 
> > Few doubts: 
> > 1. For an advaitin, Veda is apauruSeya (अपौरुषेय). 
> > Is Veda apauruSeya or the pauruSeya for  Dwaitins  and Visistadvaitins? 
> > If Veda is pauruSeya, then they have problems of 
> > a. mutual dependency and 
> > b. aswatantra pramana of vedas. 
> > How are these answered? 
> > 
> > 2. Does Veda has a 'dependent and borrowed existence' for an advaitin? 
> > Or is Veda anAdi  for an advaitin? 
> > 
> > thanks and regards 
> > -- durga prasad 
> > 
> > ________________________________ 
> >> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 10:42:09 +0530 
> >> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's 
> >> Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46 
> >> From:  
> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com<mailto:v.subrahmanian at gmail.com><mailto:v.subrahmanian at gmail.com<mailto:v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>> 
> >> To:  
> janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com<mailto:janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com><mailto:janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com<mailto:janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com>>; 
> >  
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org><mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>> 
> >> 
> >> Dear Sri Durgaprasad ji, 
> >> 
> >> The point being made in these posts is: Dvaita admits ONLY Viṣṇu 
> >> (Brahman) to have Swatantra Sattā/satya. Everything else derive their 
> >> reality/existence from Brahman and therefore are categorized as 
> >> 'paratantra sattā/satya.'   Naturally, they do not admit the Veda to 
> >> have Swatantra sattā nor can they say that the Veda enjoys the same 
> >> level of sattā as Brahman in which  case there will be two entities 
> >> having Swatantra satya: Brahman and Veda which position is not correct 
> >> even according to them.  Thus, in conclusion, for them too, like 
> >> advaitins, the Veda has only a second level, a dependent, borrowed 
> >> existence and not the first class existence. 
> >> 
> >> Advaitins openly hold that the Veda belongs to the Vyāvahārika satya. 
> >> 
> >> regards 
> >> vs 
> >> 
> >> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l 
> >> 
> >  
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org><mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>><mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org><mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>>> 
> >> wrote: 
> >> Hari Om, 
> >> 
> >> Pranams. 
> >> 
> >> For the last few days, I am not getting emails from Advaita-l  
> mailing list. 
> >> 
> >> In the archives, I saw the following in one of the emails on the subject: 
> >> 
> >> "Good point, but here the question is not whether VedAs are svatantram 
> >> or paratantram, but whether they have svatantra sattA or paratantra 
> >> sattA? 
> >> If something depends on something else for its existence, it has no 
> >> independent existence of its own. This is the advaita position: that 
> >> VedAs themselves have no svatantra sattA- they ultimately have to 
> >> depend on Brahman for their existence." 
> >> 
> >> Vedas being apauruSeya (अपौरुषेय), the relation between Brahman and 
> >> Vedas need to be understood carefully. It is discussed  in  Brahma 
> >> Sutra: 1.1.3 shAstrayonitvAt (शास्त्रयोनित्वात्) under two heads: 
> >> 
> >> 1. (Brahman is omniscient)  because of (Its) being the source of the 
> >> scriptures. 
> >> 
> >> 2. (Brahman is not known from any other source), since the scriptures 
> >> are the valid means of Its knowledge. 
> >> 
> >> "The Vedas are given out by the Supreme Being at the beginning of each 
> >> cycle of creation without effort as in breathing out. But even He does 
> >> not have liberty in creating the Vedas. He creates them exactly in the 
> >> same way as they were in the previous kalpa. That in turn is in the 
> >> same form as in the kalpa previous to it. Thus the same Vedas are given 
> >> out again and again in each kalpa. Creation is beginningless and so 
> >> there is no such thing as the first creation of the Vedas. Though the 
> >> Supreme Being gives out the Vedas in every kalpa, he has no liberty in 
> >> creating them. It is because of this lack of absolute freedom in 
> >> creating that the Vedas are called ‘apaurusheya’." 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Please see the following link (Brahmasutra 1.1.3 -- शास्त्रयोनित्वात् 
> >> Translation of the lectures of Dr. Mani Dravid Sastri) 
> >> 
> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw-rceu2TxMUakQ3Q09jeU5ORjg 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> thank you and regards 
> >> -- durga prasad 
> >> _______________________________________________ 
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> >> 
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> >> 
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> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org><mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org>><mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org><mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org>>> 
> >> 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
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