[Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata

Kalyan kalyan_kg at yahoo.com
Wed May 24 12:22:58 EDT 2017


//I have asked you why
you still want to associate yourself with us, no matter
which way you look at it.//

I have no interest in associating with you nor in replying to further posts from you. 

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/24/17, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s - Mahabharata
 To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
 Cc: "Venkata sriram P" <venkatasriramp at yahoo.in>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 3:32 PM
 
 Kalyan,
 1. You are
 not the first nor the only "not a traditional
 advaitin" on this list. That is not an excuse for your
 obnoxiousness here. In my experience, unlike you, most
 "not traditional advaitins" are quite decent
 people and pleasant to deal with.
 2. You are the first "not
 traditional advaitin" here, who has been so disruptive
 in every discussion thread where you have participated. The
 manner and content of your responses to various members,
 including Anand Hudli, YR Bhaskar, Praveen Bhat, S
 Venkataraghavan and V Subrahmanian among others, has always
 been questionable at best, all through the last three
 months. I watched and waited till this last week, before
 pulling moderator rank on you, to tell you that your modus
 operandi is not appreciated by anybody with whom you have
 chosen to engage during this time. 
 3. Your behavior on this list is
 completely contradictory to your stated purposed of wanting
 "to understand how traditional advaitins are convinced
 of the truth of the philosophy." The manner of your
 engagement with "traditional advaitins" is
 guaranteed to generate nothing but misunderstanding. In any
 case, your introductory note conveniently left out that you
 saw "unresolvable (sic) questions and
 contradictions." If you had stated that up front, we
 moderators would have asked you to clarify, prior to
 subjecting 500+ members of this list to these unsavory
 exchanges in public. 
 4. You are in no position to claim
 that you have not personally attacked any member of this
 forum. I gave you a mild warning about modulating your
 online behavior and you launched into an attack on the
 entire list in response. 
 http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2017-May/045201.html
 Through that one post, you
 questioned the integrity of every single person who is on
 this list. As a moderator, I'm merely doing my job. I
 have had to drag it out of you, regarding your past history
 as a member of this list from a different email ID. Hiding
 who you are is operating in bad faith.I have asked you why
 you still want to associate yourself with us, no matter
 which way you look at it. Your answer to that part is still
 pending.
 5. Of course,
 you can only expect "similar behavior" from our
 side. And you are getting back exactly that, although it is
 actually a lot milder than what you otherwise deserve.
 Still, you reap as you sow. 
 Vidyasankar         
         
 On Wed, May 24, 2017 at
 10:43 AM, Kalyan <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 //
 
 You have not answered my straightforward question,
 "what is your purpose for being on this list?"
 //
 
 
 
 I will answer this question if only to reduce your anger.
 But before answering, let me make a small point. In my
 introductory message itself I made it very clear that I am
 not a traditional vedAntin. Refer below link -
 
 
 
 http://lists.advaita-vedanta.
 org/archives/advaita-l/2017- February/044615.html
 
 
 
 So the moderators admitted me into the list, knowing fully
 well that I am not a traditional advaitin.
 
 
 
 Now to answer your question - I joined this list to
 understand how traditional advaitins are convinced of the
 truth of their philosophy, in the light of what I see as
 unresolvable questions and contradictions in advaita.
 
 
 
 Now I hope your question is answered. I have infact not
 written any post here where I personally attacked any member
 of this forum. I expect similar behavior from your side.
 
 
 
 ------------------------------ --------------
 
 On Wed, 5/24/17, Vidyasankar
 Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: Rama and Krishna are Jiva-s
 - Mahabharata
 
  To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
 
  Cc: "Venkata sriram P" <venkatasriramp at yahoo.in>,
 "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
 vedanta.org>
 
  Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 2:22 PM
 
 
 
  That's
 
  rich, Kalyan. If you think you are provoking me by
 
  repeatedly bringing up my being a moderator here,
 you're
 
  not. You're merely proving that you're a
 
  curmudgeon.
 
  You have not
 
  answered my straightforward question, "what is
 your
 
  purpose for being on this list?" Others, who are
 not
 
  moderators of this list, have asked you the same
 question
 
  and you have yet to answer that. You had better find a
 way
 
  to answer that and decide for yourself whether you want
 to
 
  contribute productively or if you simply want to shoot
 and
 
  scoot.
 
  Vidyasankar
 
 
 
  On Wed, May 24, 2017 at
 
  9:39 AM, Kalyan <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
  Calm
 
  down. Just because you are the moderator you cannot
 write
 
  abusive messages. I have merely presented the facts
 from
 
  Shankara bhAshyas. I have not invented anything on my
 own.
 
  There is no need to get so angry. There is no need to
 
  develop a visceral hatred for me. 
 
 
 
      On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:44 PM,
 
  Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
   Oh,
 
  come off it. You know, sometimes it's better to
 keep
 
  quiet and be thought a fool than to say something and
 remove
 
  all doubt. It's a pity that you've been
 repeatedly
 
  choosing the latter option.
 
  Once
 
  again, what is your purpose in being on a list that is
 
  dedicated to traditional advaita vedAnta if you have a
 poor
 
  opinion of everyone from Adi Sankara down? Just to
 exhibit
 
  some bravado daring the moderators to throw you
 
  out? 
 
  Vidyasankar
 
  On May 24, 2017 7:44 AM,
 
  "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
 
  wrote:
 
  //The
 
  criticism of these other schools centers around the
 fact
 
  that none of them are independent means to moksha. The
 same
 
  Sankara also accepts whatever is right and good in
 these
 
  other schools, subject to agreement with the
 aupanishada
 
  teachings.//
 
 
 
  Once
 
  again, reality is different from the above. In BSB
 2.2.32,
 
  Shankara summarily dismisses the entire Bauddha school.
 He
 
  further says that either the Buddha is a man who makes
 
  incoherent assertions or has hatred for all beings. 
 This,
 
  despite the fact that Shankara himself acknowledges the
 
  closeness of his school with that of the Buddhists in
 his
 
  Mandukya karika bhashya!
 
 
 
      On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:13 PM,
 
  Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
   The
 
  criticism of these other schools centers around the
 fact
 
  that none of them are independent means to moksha. The
 same
 
  Sankara also accepts whatever is right and good in
 these
 
  other schools, subject to agreement with the
 aupanishada
 
  teachings.
 
  SrutyanusAra-ananusAra
 
  vishaya-vivecanena sanmArge prajnA sangrahaNIyA, and
 
  paramatam apratishiddham anumataM bhavati, he
 
  says. 
 
  In contrast,
 
  bhakti towards a particular form of ISvara is a key step
 in
 
  the jnAnamArga of advaita vedAnta, provided people
 don't
 
  get caught up in the ridiculous my God is better than
 your
 
  God attitude. Unfortunately, this is a trap that many
 
  vaishNavas and Saivas find very difficult to
 
  avoid. 
 
  Once again, rather than get caught
 
  up in superficialities, please pay attention to the
 details.
 
  There is a huge amount of material in our own list
 archives
 
  as a starting point. That is, if one can put resentment
 
  aside and read with an open mind.
 
  Vidyasankar
 
  On
 
  May 24, 2017 4:49 AM, "Kalyan via Advaita-l"
 
  <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
 
  vedanta.org> wrote:
 
  //Here lies the greatness of we
 
  advaitins that we never criticise any path and take
 
  everyone in our own stride and move on....//
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Sri Venkata Sriram, Shankara has criticized mimamsa,
 nyaya,
 
  samkhya, yoga, vaiseshika, bauddha, jaina, pashupata,
 
  pancaratra, carvaka philosophers in his commentaries. To
 say
 
  that advaitins do not criticize anybody is far removed
 from
 
  reality.
 
 
 
  RegardsKalyan 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
      On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 1:28 PM, Venkata sriram
 P
 
  via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
 
  vedanta.org> wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Namaste,
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  ////
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Appayya Dikshitha probably has not studied the entire
 
  Mahabharata.
 
 
 
  In Shanti parvan, when Vishnu shows his Vishwaroopa to
 
  Narada
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  ///
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Those who are making furore over the
 मन्दत्व
 
  of अप्पय दीक्षितः, why
 don't
 
  they raise
 
 
 
  objections to the remark of वेदान्त
 
  देशिकः when he makes a remark against
 
  दक्षिणामुर्तिः
 
 
 
  vide shloka no. 7 of his हयग्रीव
 
  स्तोत्रं : 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  दाक्षिण्यरम्या
 
  गिरिशस्य मूर्तिः
 देवी
 
  सरोजासन धर्मपत्नी ।
 
 
 
  व्यासादयोऽपि
 
  व्यपदेश्यवाचः
 
  स्फुरन्ति सर्वे तव
 
  शक्तिलेशैः ॥ ७॥
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  "the pretty south-faced Ishwara (dakshinamurti),
 Devi
 
  Saraswati and Bhagavan Badarayana -
 
 
 
  all three draw their power of Knowledge from Lord
 
  Hayagriva"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Granted that these compositions show one's devotion
 to
 
  personal deity but is it not blasphemous
 
 
 
  to say that the Dakshinamurti who taught the essence of
 
  vedanta to great brahmanishtaas thru
 
 
 
  silence draws His knowledge thru Hayagriva.  The
 greatness
 
  of dakshinamurti is stated in Bhagavata Purana
 
 
 
  itself in 4th chapter.  Having seated in
 'mahAyOga'
 
  rUpa 'vaTavrikSa', demonstrates the
 
  'chinmudra' and dispels
 
 
 
  the doubts to sages.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Now, should we advaitins conclude that Vedanta Desika
 
  didn't study any shastras and was
 
 
 
  ignorant of the dakshinamurti-tattva?  Certainly
 not. 
 
  Here lies the greatness of we advaitins
 
 
 
  that we never criticise any path and take everyone in
 our
 
  own stride and move on....
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Advaitins are broad-minded and that is why it has
 become
 
  more popular and
 
 
 
  more acceptable today by great logicians and
 
  philanthropists. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  regs,
 
 
 
  sriram
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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