mental disorders

Gummuluru Murthy gmurthy at MORGAN.UCS.MUN.CA
Fri Aug 9 11:17:18 CDT 1996

On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, sadananda wrote:

>  Shree Gummuluru Murthy wrote:
> >
> >Now let us take the case of a person with what we call a "mental
> >disorder". We need also to keep in mind that it is we (who have a
> >"properly functioning mind" which perceives the world as real (!))
> >that put the tag of "mental disorder". This person has not perceived
> >the world at all and hence the concept of real or unreal world does
> >not arise. So, the proper word is not enlightenment for this person.
> >But I believe this person is closer to God, because maya is ineffective
> >in deluding this person.
> >History of Hastamalaka (one of Sri Sankara's disciples and the originator
> >of Hastamalaka Stotra)is to be kept in mind in this context. There is
> >no Sankara now to wake this type of person.
> >Regards
> >Gummuluru Murthy
> In principle beliefs, are unquestionable. By that I mean one can believe
> any thing they want.
> Mental disorder is with reference to so-called normal person with mental
> order - here the order we normally refer to is appropriate cause-effect
> relations valid in the objective world.
> Realized state is nothing to do with mental order or disorder, it is
> realization that mental orders and disorders are in me and  I am not in
> them, that is I am totality.

How can a person with a malfunctioning mind realize?

May be I am wrong, but my views are the following: In my view, realization
is a concept developed for a properly functioning mind alone.
Discrimination between what is real and what is unreal is enlightenment.
For that discrimination to occur, one has to perceive both real and
unreal things. Then only discrimation arises. What, if the person
does not perceive anything unreal ? Unreal things are perceived only
when a person is under the influence of maya. Maya acts on the mind,
superimposes and masks the reality and projects unreality. If a
person is not under the influence of maya, unreal things are not

> Hastalamalaka's case is different - He has knowledge of the world but
> igored for the higher - The fact he could compose slokas that followed
> order implies that he is very well aware of the order.
> >From the point of worldly person a realized person may behave like a mad
> man - unnmatta - B.G. yaa nishha sarva bhuutaanam....

I brought in the case of Hastamalaka as an example for the point I am
trying to make. I admit, it may not be the proper example. But
(according to writings), Hastamalaka, before Sri Sankara met him
is not different from any person with a "mental disorder" now.
> That does not mean any mad man is close to realization either.  Converse
> does not follow!
> If so by taking large dose of drugs one gets closer to realization!

I think it is trivializing an important discussion.

> There is no other short cut than realization that I am that - as Sankaraa
> puts it JNaanam vinaa moksho na sidyati - whether the person is mentally
> ordered or disordered - viveka is one of the prerequisites for it to
> differentiate aatmaa- anaatma vastu.

Let us take two persons, one a worldly person and the other a person with
"mental disorder" (Sri Sadananda uses the word "madman" or "unmatta" for
this person). Let us hypothesize that ultimate Reality approaches these
two persons in the form of a psychologist. The ultimate Reality shows a
red ball and asks what it is. The worldly person answers it a red ball
and the "unmatta" either gives an incoherent (to us) answer or would not
respond. The ultimate Reality next shows a green car and asks what it is.
The worldly person answers it as a green car and the "unmatta" either
gives an incoherent (to us) answer or would not respond.

I wonder who is the "unmatta" or the person with a mental disorder here?

> Mentally disordered man my be close,  may not be - nothing to do his
> diorders - it all depeneds on where his mind is - Remember the

I think there there is danger in judging everyone by the standards set
by us, the worldly persons. I sometimes feel that we give too much
credit and importance to ourselves (arrogate may be a strong word, but
not by much) to think our standards are right.

How do we know that in God's view, we are not labelled unmattas ?

> Bhajagovindam sloka -
> Yogaratova bhogaratova
> sangharatova sanghavihiinaH
> yadyat brahmaNI ramate chittam
> nandati nandati nadatyeva.
> whether he is a yogi, or bhogi, with the company  or without it does not
> matter. whoever has his mind revelling in that brahman alone is the one who
> has realized.

I do not dispute that. But we cannot judge that someone else whom we
tagged as a madman is not a soul with knowledge of ultimate Reality.

>  Hari Om!
> Sadananda
> >
> K. Sadananda
> Code 6323
> Naval Research Laboratory
> Washington D.C. 20375
> Voice (202)767-2117
> Fax:(202)767-2623
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your
> gift to Him: Swami Chinmayananda
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---

Gummuluru Murthy
Adau ante ca yan nAsti vartamAnepi tat tathA !
                                GaudapAda in Mandukya kArika
What did not exist at the beginning and what is not going to exist at the
 end is as good as non-existent even in the present.

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