What is Real? egodust

[egodust]

Ian wrote:
>   At 04:22 AM 6/22/96 GMT, egodust wrote:
>
>   > Once the goal is reached, the method can be discarded.
>   > When an artist finishes his painting, the brush isn't
>   > pasted on the canvas!
>
>
> IAN: But that might be a neat painting. Seriously. |^)
>
> I just wanted to add another analogy that just occurred to me:
>
> A driver uses the diving board to jump into the water. The quality
> of the board may effect the quality of the dive. But once the diver
> is in the water, the board is a mute issue. Imagine the diver trying
> to dive in with board in hand. The paradox is, if he doesn't let go,
> he can't dive in, it's impossible. Likewise, if we don't let go of
> the words / thoughts, we can't dive into lake samadhi.
>

Based on what you're saying here, I should apologize for either
misunderstanding your position [on this] or failing to explain myself
clearly.  This is *exactly* what I've been trying to say!  Thanks for
getting me outa that jamb, pal!

(Note: when I get a chance, I'll type up something that came to me
yesterday {I record stuff on tape in the woods during morning sittings}
and post it.  My understanding was sharpened considerably during and
since our little debate...just need to hone my comm skills better!)


> I guess my only observation would be that "out" of the Self is in
> the Self, as nothing is external to the Self. But diving can be
> fun, so long as we remember to let gooooo....  splash
>
>  yups, that was a word... D'oh !
>

Yes.  With one reservation: (and you alluded to this as well) If it's
*perceived* as isolated/separated from the Self, precisely THERE lies
the delusion of maya (and yet maya doesn't even exist!! What phenomenal
witchcraft that thrives in a dream within a dream.  HA!  A serious joke!

Namaste.

>From  Sun Jun 30 01:33:57 1996
Message-Id: <SUN.30.JUN.1996.013357.GMT.>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 01:33:57 GMT
Reply-To: kstuart at mail.telis.org
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Ken Stuart <kstuart at MAIL.TELIS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Sri Ramakrishna (was Re: The dvaita...)
Comments: To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199606291743.MAA11788 at dns.eng.auburn.edu>

Hello,

On Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:43:01 -0500, Sankar Jayanarayanan
<kartik at ENG.AUBURN.EDU> wrote:

>I do remember a posting in the SRH (by Ken) which said how RamaNa also
>recommended surrendering to the Guru. ("Either enquire into the self, or admit
>your own inability and surrender to God or to the Guru. God or the Guru never
>forsakes the devotee who comes for refuge".)

And here is that quote of what Ramana Maharshi says on this subject:

Q: " If it be true that the Guru is one's own Self (atman), what is
the principle underlying the doctrine which says that however learned
a disciple may be or whatever occult powers he may possess, he cannot
attain self-realization (atma-siddhi) without the grace of the Guru? "

Ramana Maharshi: " Although in absolute truth the state of the Guru is
that of oneself it is very hard for the Self which has become the
individual soul (jiva) through ignorance to realise its true state or
nature without the grace of the Guru.
All mental concepts are controlled by the mere presence of the real
Guru.  If he were to say to one who arrogantly claims that he has seen
the further shore of the ocean of learning or one who claims
arrogantly than he can perform deeds which are well-nigh impossible,
'Yes, you learnt all that is to be learnt, but have you learnt (to
know) yourself? And you who are capable of performing deeds which are
almost impossible, have you seen yourself?', they will bow their heads
(in shame) and remain silent.  Thus it is evident that only by the
grace of the Guru and by no other accomplishment is it possible to
know oneself. " *

-----------
* from the book 'The Spiritual Teaching of Ramana Maharshi', which is
available from the Vedanta Catalog by e-mailing vedanta at aol.com , or by
calling 1-800-816-2242 .

-----------------


Namaskar,

Ken
kstuart at mail.telis.org

"The ego arises from the mistaken notion that the light of consciousness
reflected in the intellect and coloured by objectively perceived phenomena
is the true nature of the Self.  Thus, the personal ego falsely identifies
the Self with that which is not the Self and vice versa." - Mark Dyczkowski