Three schools of thought

[Shashikanth Hosur]

On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Madhava Kumar Turumella wrote:

=>>
=>> >
=>> >Namaskaram
=>> >        I have question for you.
=>>
=>> Hari Om!
=>> Before I start I should say these are my opinions only.
=>>
=>> I do not say these are authoritative.  You have full freedom to question
=>> and counter argue.  I would appreciate it because your question make
=>> me feel think and the other members as well. And by that I am sure
=>> I can further improve my understanding over the subject.
=>>
=>> As I understood the Advaitic teaching "advaita is a kind of state to
=>> be experienced".  It can't be expressed. Just imagine the deepsleep
=>> state. We can experience the joy but can't express it.

        No Advaita if it is a state is a as false as any other state.
Advaita is not a state.  It is beyond the states.  As long as ur are in a
state then its not the Absolute truth.  The absolute is beyond All the
states.  As long as some thing is a state it implicitly carries the notion
of change so it cannot be truth.  So Advaita is beyond states.

=>> used to go into the samadhi.  Many times his disciples
=>> questioned him about his experience during that state. Sri paramahamsa
=>> in order to explain that state used to enter that state again. But once
=>> he goes into the samadhi he never used to speak. After coming out of that
=>> state he use to cry (with compassion towards his ignorant disciples)
=>> for not able to explain what that state was.
=>>
=>> Advaitic state is "aparOkshAnubhooti".
=>>
=>> The same question was put to Sri Satyasai baba "How do I know that
=>> I am brahman, I am everything"  Sri baba answered "If you question
=>> about where are the waves starting from, you can not be answered.
=>> In order to know the starting point of the waves you should become
=>> the ocean itself.  In the same way, identifying yourself as a jeeva, do not
=>> question or wonder whether you are God or not. You should strive
=>> and undergo sadhana and reach the realisation state. Then you yourself
=>> will say to yourself that you are God.  Why only to yourself, because,
=>> once you realize yourself, the world will no longer exist in it's real
=>> shape".
=>>
=>> >If Dwaita and Vishista dwaita schools
=>> >of thought do not lead to realization then why did Sri Madvacharya
=>> >and Sri Ramujacharja founded this schools of thought
=>>
=>> I do not know!  I am not a realised person.  I can not comment on the
=>> above question. Because no answer would be a suitable answer for that.
=>> I only know (again I doubt it :-)), logically, that their teachings
=>> do not get one to the absolute realisation. But, they help the seekers
=>> in purifying themselves, so that they will become fit enough to the
=>> realisation.
        So u mean all the great souls like Annamayya, Tagaraju and all others
did not know God.
        Vishista dwaita school and dwaita school are valid.
        Sri ramakrishna Paramahamsa himself used to state that vishista
dwaita and dwaita schools are also correct.

=>> Again this is illustrated to Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.  His first
=>> teacher bhairavi brahmaNi has helped him in reaching Goddess Kali. He
=>> used to speak to Goddess Kali but later onwards he was initated into
=>> the final state of Samadhi by his advaitic guru Sri Totapuri. Sri
=>> Ramakrishna paramahamsa initally was not interested in knowing something
=>> other than his "kalima". Again it is Goddess Kali helped him in realising
=>> the final state.  His first samadhi experience was last for 3 days.
=>>
        Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa had his first samadhi experience at
11.  He used to tell his disciples about it.
        Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa wanted to practise all the philosophies
and experience their validity and hence he asked mother Kali to teach him
The bjairavi Brahmani was a tantric guru.  She taught him about tantra.
Sri Totapuri taught him about advaita at the same time he realised that
god also has form which was taught to him by sri Ramkrishna Paramahamsa

=>> This again resembles our EsAvAsyOpanishad.  The upasyadevata Surya
=>> helps the seeker in realising the final state.
=>> "hiraNmayEna patrENa satyasApihitaM mukaM
=>> pooshan tvaM apAvRUNu satya dharmArdha dRUsthayE"
=>>
=>> Probably (again my opinion!) Sri Ramanuja and Sri Madhva must have
=>> thought that it is anyway necessary to have a upasyadevata hence
=>> why don't we help the seekers to get in touch with their upasya devatas,
=>> rather than teaching them the highest truth.  I believe that once you
=>> start speaking to your diety that diety in turn will help you in realising
=>> yourself.  Hanuma was taught by SriRama and he explains this to Rama.
=>> "dEha budhayA dhaasOhaM, manObudhyA tvadaMsakaH, aatmabudhyA tvamEvAhaM".
        Then Why did Sri Ramanuja and Sri Madhava teach against some of the
advaitic practises.  U answer is not clear.
        It also means that they were not teaching something which they
proclaimed as highest truth.  So that means they were lying ..
=>> No doubt, "brahma satyaM jaganmidhya" is taught by Sri Adisankara. But
=>> I know that "brahma satyaM jagatsarvaM geevanaM satyasOdhanaM" again
=>> taught by Sri Adisankara only.
=>>
=>> Did I confuse you with my posting :-)... Think that you may be questioning
=>> a blind man. :-) "aMdhEna aMdhEnaiva"....
=>>
shashi
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Shashikanth Hosur                                Email:shashi at kbsdec2.tamu.edu
Dept Of Industrial Engg                                shashi at kbssun1.tamu.edu
Texas A&M University                                   shashikanth at tamu.edu

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