Disciples of Ramana Maharshi

[Cameron Reilly]

Ken Stuart wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> In my life and especially in my spiritual development, one of the two
> or three most influential figures has been Ramana Maharshi.
>
> His unwavering attention to the most basic question of life and
> existence, in both his writings and his dialogues, namely "Who Am I?",
> has been of inestimable value to me.
>
> However, it is perplexing to me, that, in my personal opinion and
> estimation, one finds more false teachers who claim to be followers or
> disciples of Ramana than one finds in any other lineage.
>
> I should clarify, that what I mean here by a false teacher is not the
> same as a fake.   A fake is someone who has no real intention of doing
> good, doesn't believe the teachings, and is just interested in conning
> people out of their time and money.   In my parlance, a false teacher
> is someone who is partially or even wholly well intentioned, but
> believes himself to be realized when he has not achieved that state.
> Often such a situation comes about from the attainment of some
> intermediate state where ego is still present, which sometimes can
> lead to the ego deciding that it (the ego) has become divine.
>
> Now there is no reason that a devotee who is not realized cannot also
> be a teacher, but it is essential that they have a realistic
> assessment of their attainments.   A good example of such a teacher is
> Ram Dass, who has always been clear that he only teaches at the behest
> of his own guru.
>
> However, in my searchings, I have come across a number of "followers
> of Ramana Maharshi" who have set themselves up as gurus, while at the
> same time, circumstantial evidence strongly points to the conclusion
> that they are less than realized.   In the USA, I find westerners who
> seem desperate to "play guru" taking on a whole host of trappings that
> are unnecessary in the west, and that are largely dispensed with by
> some of the more authentic teachers I have come across.   I've also
> come across a disciple of Ramana, who in turn has a "successor", who
> have been at war with each other for years.   Some of the documented
> statements from both sides leads one quickly to the decision that
> neither one has reached any great spiritual level.
>
> So, while I have my own theories, I wanted to ask those in this
> mailing list for their opinions as to why Ramana Maharshi's great
> teachngs seem to also create so many false, ie deluded teachers?
>
> Namaskar,
>
> Ken
>
> kstuart at mail.telis.org


Ken,

You must ask yourself: these 'false guru's'... do they have any choice
in the matter?

If they teach, if they don't teach... what choice do 'they' have, being
only illusions?

They all play the role assigned to their particular body/mind organism.
As do we all.

Cheers,
Cameron.

>From  Sun Oct 20 23:40:14 1996
Message-Id: <SUN.20.OCT.1996.234014.GMT.>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 23:40:14 GMT
Reply-To: kstuart at mail.telis.org
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Ken Stuart <kstuart at MAIL.TELIS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Disciples of Ramana Maharshi
Comments: To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <326AB2DB.453F at ozemail.com.au>
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Hello,

On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:16:43 +1000, Cameron Reilly
<cjreilly at OZEMAIL.COM.AU> wrote:

>Ken Stuart wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> In my life and especially in my spiritual development, one of the two
>> or three most influential figures has been Ramana Maharshi.
>>
>> His unwavering attention to the most basic question of life and
>> existence, in both his writings and his dialogues, namely "Who Am I?",
>> has been of inestimable value to me.
>>
>> However, it is perplexing to me, that, in my personal opinion and
>> estimation, one finds more false teachers who claim to be followers or
>> disciples of Ramana than one finds in any other lineage.
>>
>> I should clarify, that what I mean here by a false teacher is not the
>> same as a fake.   A fake is someone who has no real intention of doing
>> good, doesn't believe the teachings, and is just interested in conning
>> people out of their time and money.   In my parlance, a false teacher
>> is someone who is partially or even wholly well intentioned, but
>> believes himself to be realized when he has not achieved that state.
>> Often such a situation comes about from the attainment of some
>> intermediate state where ego is still present, which sometimes can
>> lead to the ego deciding that it (the ego) has become divine.
>>
>> Now there is no reason that a devotee who is not realized cannot also
>> be a teacher, but it is essential that they have a realistic
>> assessment of their attainments.   A good example of such a teacher is
>> Ram Dass, who has always been clear that he only teaches at the behest
>> of his own guru.
>>
>> However, in my searchings, I have come across a number of "followers
>> of Ramana Maharshi" who have set themselves up as gurus, while at the
>> same time, circumstantial evidence strongly points to the conclusion
>> that they are less than realized.   In the USA, I find westerners who
>> seem desperate to "play guru" taking on a whole host of trappings that
>> are unnecessary in the west, and that are largely dispensed with by
>> some of the more authentic teachers I have come across.   I've also
>> come across a disciple of Ramana, who in turn has a "successor", who
>> have been at war with each other for years.   Some of the documented
>> statements from both sides leads one quickly to the decision that
>> neither one has reached any great spiritual level.
>>
>> So, while I have my own theories, I wanted to ask those in this
>> mailing list for their opinions as to why Ramana Maharshi's great
>> teachngs seem to also create so many false, ie deluded teachers?
>>
>> Namaskar,
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> kstuart at mail.telis.org
>
>
>Ken,
>
>You must ask yourself: these 'false guru's'... do they have any choice
>in the matter?
>
>If they teach, if they don't teach... what choice do 'they' have, being
>only illusions?
>
>They all play the role assigned to their particular body/mind organism.
>As do we all.

When someone asks you where the bathroom is, do you reply "Your need
to use the bathroom is only an illusion." ?

I think that if Ramana had been asked where the bathroom is, he would
not reply "Who is it that thinks it needs to go to the bathroom?".
Instead, he would reply "around the corner in the back", and save the
"Who is it that thinks there is a world?" response for philosophical
questions put to him in the lecture hall.

In fact, the above is just the sort of thing that false gurus do,
their egos are so caught up in "being a guru" that they can't
distinguish between when philosophy is appropriate and when it is not.


Namaskar,

Ken

kstuart at mail.telis.org