Disciples of Ramana Maharshi

[Natha Bhaktyananda]

egodust wrote:
>
> This is true of nirvikalpa samadhi but, in my view, that you're implying
> it's true of mukthi is misleading.  Although mukthi CAN encompass nirvikalpa,
> it's not a prerequisite of mukthi.  As you probably know, this is true of ALL
> siddhis.----------------------------

Nevertheless, Paramahamsa Ramakrisna clearly states that mukti is attained by
 one who
spends at least 3 days and nights *at a stretch* in Nirvikalpa Samadhi -- he
 himself
spent 6 months! It is also a well-known thing about Ramana Maharishi that he
 also spent
days at a stretch meditating (in samadhi) oblivious to the outer world in the
 basement
of a temple, until bugs made wounds all over his body.

Yes, I admit that mukti is not the same with nirvikalpa samadhi, in the meaning
 that not
all those who had *glimpses* of nirvikalpa have reached mukti. Also that
 Liberation can
sometimes imply an even higher form of samadhi, the famous "bhava samadhi", the
samadhi-with-open-eyes, which is not even mentioned by most yoga texts (not even
 in the
Yoga-sutra), but which was clearly described by Ramakrisna. In this samadhi, the
nirvikalpa is maintained somehow paradoxically even while the eyes may be open
 and the
outer activities unfold. But it must be quite clear that one cannot reach the
 bhava
without passing (be it for an instant) through the stage of *exclusive*
 nirvikalpa
(since bhava involves "nirvikalpa in action", "nirvana into samsara", "void
 during
action". And any person who has reached bhava can return *at will* into
 nirvikalpa
(which stays lower to him) and can anytime make the proof that I have spoken
 about in my
last message. One can study the Advaita Saiva techings of Abhinavagupta,
 Ksemaraja, etc.
and find there many, many more details on this topic.
------------------------------------

> I regard Self-realization to be a very simple and ordinary affair.  It
> throws one back onto incredibly familiar ground, with the distinction that
> the Mind has been diffused and thereof no longer capable of interfering.
> This is Bliss.
>
> Based on what I've said earlier, there appears a contradiction: viz.,
> that everyone is already Self-realized, where I now imply that it
> happens in time.  Actually, both and neither are true and false!  Simply
> because the whole idea of 'Self-realization' is a Mind-game.  And this
> is where some insight into the koan method of Zen can help shed light;
> as well as some choice statements of Gaudapada, Sankara, and the Sage of
> Arunachala, such as:
>
> "The ajatavada (pure advaita doctrine) is represented by no loss, no
> creation, no-one bound, no sadhaka, no-one desirous of liberation, no
> liberation.  This is the Supreme Truth." --Gaudapada in Mandukya Kareeka,
> II--32.
>
> and
>
> "The feeling that I have not realized is the obstruction to realization.
> In fact, it is already realized; there is nothing more to be realized."
> --Bhagavan Sri RM in "Talks with Bhagavan" 1962 edition p192
>
> and
>
> "You are That, here and now......This is the master key for solving all
> doubts." --ibid, p121-----------------------------------

All the things said above are very beautiful but of no pedagogic use, because
 they are
true only from the standpoint of those who have already reached mukti. Jidu
 Krishnamurti
has spent a lifetime telling to the whole world that nothing should be done for
 reaching
mukti, that there is no method, no teacher, no school, and the outcome of this
 wonderful
pedagogic was that nobody indeed got enlightened by this "non-method". If you
 take
instead of him, Svami Sivananda (from Rishikesh) (who unlike Krishnamurti was
 not
spontaneously enlightened as a child but had to work hard his way up till that
 -- and
therefore knew infinitely more about the path and how does an ignorant person
 actually
feel in the beginning), you will find out that when he took his maha-samadhi,
 Sivanada
left behind him 43 (!) pupils who had reached the state of samadhi. Ramakrishna
 left 12.
Ramana apparently left none... The realisation may well be the same, but the
 pedagogic
and the talent to transmit it to others definitely differs from master to
 master.

Blessing,

--
Natha Bhaktyananda <natha at dk-online.dk>
Kxbmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668