Contradiction in Ramana Maharshi?

Dennis Waite dwaite at INTERALPHA.CO.UK
Sat Apr 19 02:50:42 CDT 1997


In respect of the ongoing discussions on free will etc., things have started
to become clearer now, especially with Charles Wikner's recent excellent
posts. I do have a problem, however, with the quotations given by Giri from
Ramana Maharshi. On Tues 15th April, he quoted:-

'As long as there is individuality, there is free will.' and

D: It is said in our scriptures that God creates, sustains, and destroys all
and that He is immanent in all. IF so, and if God does everything, and if
all we do is according to God's law, and had already been planned in the
Cosmic Consciousness, is there individual personality and any responsibility
for it ?

M: Of course, there is. The same scriptures have laid down rules as to
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
what men should or should not do. If man is not responsible, then why should
those rules have been laid down ? .... If you believe in God and His niyati
working out everything, completely surrender yourself to Him and there will
be no responsibility for you. Otherwise, find out your real nature and thus
attain freedom.

The earlier posts had established that there can be no free will at the
praatibhaasika level (after all, there is only the self, the self soes not
act; there can be no concept of cause and effect). All this seems perfectly
reasonable. Further, at the vyaavahaarika level, dharma, karma etc., it
seems reasonable that there must be free will as perceived by the ego.

However, how does this tie up with the quote from RM given by Cameron on
31st Oct last year?

        One summer afternoon I was sitting opposite Bhagavan in the old
hall, with
        a fan in my hand and said to him: "I can understand that the outstanding
        events in a man's life, such as his country, nationality, family,
career or
        rofession, marriage, death, etc., are all predestined by his karma, but
        can it be that all the details of his life, down to the minutest, have
        already been determined? Now, for instance, I put this fan that is in my
        hand down on the floor here. Can it be that it was already decided
that on
        such and such a day, at such and a such an hour, I shall move the
fan like
        this and put it down here?"

        Bhagavan replied,   "Certainly." He continued: "Whatever this body
is to do
        and whatever experiences it is to pass through was already decided
when it
        came into existence.

RM is clearly talking about the vyaavahaarika level here. Can someone
resolve this apparent contradiction, please?

Dennis



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