Jaldhar H. Vyas
jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM
Tue Feb 11 22:00:06 CST 1997
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997, Giri wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Feb 1997, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:
> Naturally then, you assume muktika upanishhad is also a forgery
> since it mentions vajrasuchi as a genuine upanishhad.
>From the critical point of view it almost certainly is. (And lest anyone
think this method is only used by atheistic Westerners Appaya Dikshita
says the same thing about certain works quoted by Madhva.) Nevertheless
as religious people our agenda is different from a professor. Certainly
if our traditions say the vajrasuci is a real upanishad it bears weighty
consideration. (But have you considered the published work called
Vajrasuci Upanishad is the same as the one mentioned in Muktika?)
> On the otherhand,
> has some vedantic authority said that vajrasuchi and muktika are fakes ?
A better question might be has any said anythning about them at all?
> Shankara quotes from upanishhads which are no longer extant today.
> Further, he even notes certain verses in the adhyatma patala of the
> apastamba dharma sutra are upanishhadic in origin but have been lost by
> his time. Thus, there has been a gradual erosion of upanishhadic verses.
> Compounding this problem is the modern forgeries. Given this case, we are
> provided to rely on the 108 upanishhads provided by muktika or else throw
> out almost all upanishhads and just stick with the major upanishhads
> which have been used by Shankara etc.
Which is fine with me. however we needn't be so restrictive. For
instance one of the "minor" upanishads Shankaracharya has quoted is
Nrsimhottaratapaniyopanishad. Ramanuja has I believe also quoted it so we
can be rather more sure of its authenticity than the Allah upanishad which
is quoted by no one. Similiarly there are other logical methods we can
use to weigh the various claims.
In fact the same thing is true of Shankaracharyas own works.
Critical scholars are only 100% sure four of his works are genuine;
Brahmasutrabhashya, Taittiryopanishadbhashya, Brhadaranyakopanishadbhashya,
and Upadesha Sahasri. The Vani Vilas edition of his complete works which
most Advaitins consider authoritative contains rather more than that but there
are many works ascribed to him which aren't in there. Do you the editors
just flipped a coin to decide what to put in or was there some process?
> Do you know what the prayaschita is for a person who takes sanyas,
> returns to married life and has children ? If he and his wife are
> Brahmanas, the children are NOT brahmanas by default. Apparently,
> Maharastrians during the time of Jnanadeva did not know an appropriate
> prayaschita for this and recommended suicide of his parents for a start,
> as you know.
As far as our tradition is considered sannyasa is equivalent to death.
you can't come back from the dead so perhaps suicide is the only
acceptable way out.
Jaldhar H. Vyas [jaldhar at braincells.com] And the men .-_|\ who hold
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