Agony of the soul (?) etc
Jaldhar H. Vyas
jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM
Thu Jan 9 12:42:17 CST 1997
On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Swami Vishvarupananda wrote:
> If meditation is a mere exercise of the intellect,
There is nothing mere about excercise of the intellect.
> how can it lead you to
> that which is beyond mind and intellect?
It can tell you what Brahman is not ('neti neti') and when all bheda has
been cast aside, you will be left with Brahman.
> Are you trying to say that Reality
> is to be realized by what you yourself call an illusion?
Yes. In this case the illusion points the way to that which is
> Are not mind and
> intellect the very limitations of consciousness that keep us blind to
Partly, but they are also the instrument through which we can apprehend
> Man, what a contradiction. It is as impossible as to look at a
> thought with your physical eyes or touch the dimension of time with your
Ok. So what? You can't hear with your eyes or taste with your hands
either. These senses have their own organs of apprehension. So thought
has it's own organ of apprehension, the mind. I fail to see what is
contradictory or controversial about that.
> Look, I cannot show any proof to you of what meditation beyond intellectual
> gymnastics means and effects.
In other words I have to take your word for it. The salient
characteristic of truth is that it does not depend on any particular
subject. What's true for you is also true for me and anyone else who
comes along. Truth is independantly verifiable. But according to you,
there is no way to verify what meditation is. I have to take your word
for it. Then the question becomes what makes you a trustworthy authority?
Because someone gullible enough to accept anothers words uncritically will
be more likely to fall prey to conmen and charlatans. My assertions on
the other hand, don't depend upon my existence at all. Anyone can judge
for themselves whether they are true by looking at the shastras and
employing their logical faculties. The truth was the truth before I was
born and will continue to be true after I die.
> It is as if you'd ask me to show you the pain
> in my arm.
You could use instruments that measure nerve or biochemical activity to
measure pain. Or I could infer your state by the fact you are crying,
screaming etc. And probably other ways.
> You are free to exercise you brains in an effort to make the
> ungraspable graspable. As you believe this is the way, maybe it is better
> for you to experience the boundaries yourself than to listen to my
Actually I don't believe Brahman is ungraspable. Assuming I experienced
something, how I know it was Brahman and not some delusion unless I knew
in advance what Brahman is supposed to be?
Jaldhar H. Vyas [jaldhar at braincells.com] And the men .-_|\ who hold
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