Jivanmukta, effort, grades of jnanis, etc.
un824 at FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA
Wed Jul 23 11:33:51 CDT 1997
I agree with Gummuluru about being the witness, etc. I'm not
continuing in an argumentative vein here, but trying to further
emphasize a few points I thought were important. Someone asked
Ramana: "Having once experienced the Supreme Bliss, how can one
stray away from it?" Ramana answers: "Oh yes! It happens. The
predispositions adhering to him from time immemorial will draw
him out and so ignorance overtakes him". The questioner continues:
"What are the obstacles to remaining steady in unbroken Bliss.
How can they be overcome?" Ramana replies: "The obstacles are:
[...] Doubt which consists in wondering if even the experience
was of the Real or of the unreal."
OK, so there you have it. Someone *CAN* "experience" the real thing
but subsequently doubt it and thereby "fall from yoga". A *very*
lamentable state of affairs that must not be allowed to happen.
The *only* reason I'm writing all this, is to encourage anyone else
who may "experience the Supreme Bliss" but then start to doubt it...
If anyone tells you, "it could not have been real if you could now
doubt it or if it was not permanent", turn away from their "help",
remember what Ramana said in the previous paragraph and listen to
the following 2 quotes are from Nikhilananda's Introduction to his
translation of Sankara's Atmabodha (Self-Knowledge)...
"Even after the Truth has been known, there often remains the strong,
beginningless, and stubborn notion that one is the doer of action and the
experiencer of its results. This notion has to be carefully removed by
living in a state of constant communion with the Self. Only thus may one
experience the bliss of Liberation even though living in a body. The
seeker must not be inadvertent about his steadfastness to Self-Knowledge.
Inadvertence is death. Inadvertence, delusion, egoism, bondage, and
suffering are the successive links in the chain of worldly life. If the
mind ever so slightly strays from the Inner Self and moves into the outer
world, it goes down and down, just as a ball carelessly dropped from the
top of a staircase bounces from step to step and does not stop until it
reaches the bottom. The Truth of the Self is extremely subtle and cannot
be reached by a distracted mind. It is realized only by noble souls of
pure mind, and even by them only through extraordinary concentration."
"THE JIVANMUKTA, OR LIBERATED MAN
Vedantic seers say that one cannot attain complete Freedom and Knowledge
in life by experiencing the nirvikalpa samadhi once or twice. Only by
repeated practice can one become established in Brahman and rid oneself
of all the vestiges of maya. The seed of ignorance must be fully roasted
in the fire of Brahmajnana, the Knowledge of the Absolute, so that it may
never germinate again. Thus alone does one become a jivanmukta, liberated
in this life though still living in a human body. Such a man breaks
through the fetters of attachment and rushes out of the prison-house of
the world, as a lion rushes out of its cage. This Freedom is achieved
when one is rid of ignorance and its paralysing effect."
best wishes to all,
I'm sorry if any previous posts offended anyone. I hope it can be
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