Why the same dream?

[Greg Goode]

At 11:11 PM 11/25/97 GMT, egodust ( > ) wrote:
>Miguel Angel Carrasco wrote: ( >> )

>> Seen from the re-phrased Thesis B, this question should be answered Yes.
>> But then all these characters would have absolutely the same value, whether
>> enlightened or not. There would be no difference at all between having
>> lived as a Stalin or as  a Samkara. You would be in no position to say that
>> meditation is better than murdering children. All the sages^Ò wise words
>> would not be any worthier than my dog^Òs barks. After all, everything would
>> just be part of the same dream.
>
>Yes, the apparent differences only exist relatively.  Remember, there are
>no real, independent doers at any time, whether the belief exists that there
>are or not.  There was never any snake in existence.  And suffering through
>its appearance--even from the temporal perspective--will eventually dissolve
>and lose its sensational impact.

This last is a good point, something I've seen many seekers not get clear:

"there are no real, independent doers at any time,
 whether the belief exists that there are or not."

Many people I've seen attending talks and satsang with teachers here in NYC
sort of get confused as foillows.  They get the idea that their previous
belief in the reality of the personal do-er/entity was something that
*caused the entity really to exist*.  And that correspondingly, their new
belief that this entity doesn't exist will result in the entity not
existing.  Like egodust says, there never was a doer, even when we thought
there was.  The sage and the scriptures point out that the doer (even the
dreamer!) doesn't exist, and never did to begin with.  Most people I've
seen come into contact with this teaching experience an instantaneous
lightening of the load as soon as they really understand this.  (Either
that, or they're totally turned off by the idea!!)

--Greg