I - Self or mind???

[Nanda Kumar]

On the subject of "I - mind or self", both Gummuluru Murthy's and Ram
Chandrans ideas hinge on the concept of faith. While Murthy says
individuals should consider themselves divine (as is expounded by
Vivekananda) and work towards the truth instead of impeding
themselves with a negative attitude, Ram Chandran stresses on faith in
divine guidance.

My question here is, is this kind of 'brainwashing' necessary? After all,
I'm as I'm, in my present state of ignorance. It's the Truth, that I'm
after. I'm quite aware of my infirmities and for me to progress, is it really
necessary for me to condition myself with a mental attitude, which is not
wholly true (BTW, is the concept that the soul is divine or that it has the
POTENTIAL to be divine?). And is this the right attitude for jnana? And as
Govind pointed out there's ample scope for undisired results.

I would like to point out that I'm not against a positive mental attitude, but
against a positive mental attitude based on concepts which might not be
wholly true. And since jnana places so much emphasis on reason,
wouldn't such an attitude be a contradiction? To attain reality, aren't we
actually forsaking reality for fantasy? But again I agree that such an
attitude would be a great source of strength and support along the
ardous path.

Govind's idea is as it's expounded in Bhagavat Gita - he who sees all in
himself and himself in all, is the jnani. With practice and patience and
understanding this does seem 'achievable'.

>From  Thu Oct  9 19:10:47 1997
Message-Id: <THU.9.OCT.1997.191047.0400.>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:10:47 -0400
Reply-To: chandran at tidalwave.net
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Ram Chandran <chandran at TIDALWAVE.NET>
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Subject: Re: I - Self or mind???
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Nanda Kumar wrote:

> ...........
> On the subject of "I - mind or self", both Gummuluru Murthy's and Ram
> Chandrans ideas hinge on the concept of faith. ...........
> My question here is, is this kind of 'brainwashing' necessary? ........

Dear Nandakumar:

Namaskar:

In real life there are lots of questions.  When we faith and Trust, we
can get answers for our questions. But without faith (Trust) questions
will remain as questions! Alternatively, every answer will be followed
by additional questions!  There is a beautiful quotation in the
Upanishads: "The more we know, we learn, more we don't know." There is
no end to this cat and mouse race!  There are no answers!  This may look
confusing but you need to think sometime and see the hidden TRUTH.

> I would like to point out that I'm not against a positive mental attitude, but
> against a positive mental attitude based on concepts which might not be
> wholly true. And since jnana places so much emphasis on reason,
> wouldn't such an attitude be a contradiction? To attain reality, aren't we
> actually forsaking reality for fantasy? But again I agree that such an
> attitude would be a great source of strength and support along the
> ardous path.
> Govind's idea is as it's expounded in Bhagavat Gita - he who sees all in
> himself and himself in all, is the jnani. With practice and patience and
> understanding this does seem 'achievable'.

All attitudes are based on faith or experience based beliefs.  Why
should I see everybody in me and my self in all? Where did this idea
come from? Why should I agree? When start this investigative process, at
some point of time we will left with only questions and no answers!
        In reality, every human being build his (her) faith based on their
experience and environment. Consequently, beliefs and life-style vary
across the population. In reality, the process of our brain-washing
began from the moment of our birth. The doctors will identify it as
brain growth. The school teachers will label it as Education. Parents
and family members declare it as maturity. At the workplace, it is
called training. In Spiritual life, it is called FAITH.  Why it is not
acceptable in this situation?