There is no ...

[Srinivas Sista]

Miguel Angel Carrasco wrote:
>
> Allow me to state a position I am slowly but relentlessly approaching:
>
> ^ÓThere is only the One, the Absolute.
> ^ÓThere is nothing else at all.
> ^ÓThere is no (1: see note) body, no soul, no ego, no world.
> ^ÓThere is no Vedas, no Sankara, no Ramana, no Nisargadatta.
> ^ÓThere is no maja, no creation, no illusion, no dis-illusioning.
> ^ÓThere is no karma, no re-incarnation, no liberation.
> ^ÓThere is no Shiva, no Krishna, no gods.
> ^ÓThere is no Advaita, no religion, no philosophy.
> ^ÓThere is no me, no you, no we.
> ^ÓThere is no two, no three, no four, just the One.
> ^ÓAnd I^Òm this One, and nothing else.
>
> End of expositon ot the position.
> When I^Òm in this position I don^Òt understand
>           any of the discussions about anything.
> But I feel extremely at rest.
> Am I oversimplifying? Please comment.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no exposition, no beginning or ending.
There is no oversimplyfying.
There are no comments.

regards,
Srinivas Sista.
>From  Wed Oct 22 08:31:37 1997
Message-Id: <WED.22.OCT.1997.083137.0400.>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:31:37 -0400
Reply-To: chandran at tidalwave.net
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Ram Chandran <chandran at TIDALWAVE.NET>
Organization: Personal
Subject: Re: There is no ...
Comments: To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Miguel Angel Carrasco wrote:
> Allow me to state a position I am slowly but relentlessly approaching:
>
> "There is only the One, the Absolute. .............
> ................................     When I'm in this position I don't understand
>  any of the discussions about anything.
> But I feel extremely at rest.
> Am I oversimplifying? Please comment.

Hello Miguel:
        When we free our Self from the "World of Notions, " we will be at REST!
This is absolutely true. Though, it is not oversimplifying but it
doesn't give any direction or clue! If I were the King, I could rule the
Kingdom is logical, correct but such statement is useless! This is a
tautology which repeats a trivial TRUTH!
        The key question that we are investigating is "What is the human
Dharma?" Again Dharma in Sanskrit has multiple meanings and connotations
that are subject to context and the Subject of reference. Some examples
are necessary.  The Dharma of the FIRE is to Burn.  The Dharma of a
Tiger is to kill and eat some cattle. The Dharma of a flower plant is to
bloom! The Dharma of a fruit tree is to yield fruits! The Dharma of the
CREATOR is to CREATE.   Now when we try to define the Dharma of a human
being, we get millions of choices! Religion becomes a helpful tool to
understand the fundamental question on the Human Dharma.  Different
religions have attempted to define the role of human beings in the
universe and the relationship between human beings, between human and
the Creator and between human, the living and nonliving species.  One of
the significant religious movement comes from the "Vedic Tradition." The
people who observed those traditions have evolved the philosophy known
as "Vedanta."  Advaita, Dwaita and VishishtAdvaita are the three major
classifications of Vedanta philosophy.  According to Advaita, Brahman is
the single indivisible entity of the universe and all divisions are the
illusions projected by the Illusory human mind!  The great philosopher
and spiritual master Sankara developed the Advaita philosophy.  Sankara
has developed supporting documents from Vedic Scriptures to validate his
thesis. To understand the genesis of his thesis, it is important to read
his commentaries on the Upanishads, Brahma Sutra and the Bhagavad Gita.
It is also important to understand the historical significance and
relevance of Advaita Philosophy in India during Sankara's time.  For all
relevant information, I request you to refer to the Home page of our
fellow member of the Advaita family, Vidyasankar Sundaresan,
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~vidya/advaita/.  Vidya has given elaborate
account of the different issues that are relevant for a good
understanding of Advaita. Due to time constraints, let me stop right
here!

>From  Wed Oct 22 09:37:07 1997
Message-Id: <WED.22.OCT.1997.093707.0400.>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 09:37:07 -0400
Reply-To: chandran at tidalwave.net
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Ram Chandran <chandran at TIDALWAVE.NET>
Organization: Personal
Subject: Re: Question about the causal state
Comments: To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

sadananda <sada at ANVIL.NRL.NAVY.MIL>  wrote

> ............But we Advaitins know that Shankar is very logical.
> Ignorance has to be beginningless.  This is true to all types of
> ignorance.  When did my ignorance of chemistry started - It was
> there from the beginning from the moment you told me that is
> something called chemistry.
> Questions that normally asked is when did this ignorance,
> avidya started and who has that ignorence.  These are one of
> the burning issues of advaita vedanta that others such as
> Sri Ramanujachar of VishiTaadviata and Madwacharya of
> dvaita find fault with.  Shankar responds to this as it is
> beginningless -

        We Advaitins know that Shankar is very logical because we have great
FAITH in Shankar! But for those who do not have such faith, this may not
necessarily be true!  Both Knowledge and Ignorance have no beginning!
This is similar to the famous chicken and egg problem! Since logic is
not going to help to solve this problem, it doesn't matter whether
Shankar is logical or not!

> In atma bodha  he says:-

        anaadi avidyaa anirvaachyaa
        karanopadhih uchyate|

> This avidya is beginningless and inexplicable and is called as causal
> body. Of course the others interpret this as not the answer but
> If ignorance starts in time, then
> before that one is knowledgeable and knowledgeable person
> cannot become ignorant.

The Upanishads say that the more we know, the more we don't know! The
Upanishads rightly declare that knowledge has no limits! The implication
is that we are always going to be ignorant!  Your example about
chemistry also implies that the knowledge about chemistry seeds
ignorance and mind looks for more knowledge!

> Of course another problem in the
> vasana state is beginning and end are the concept of time.
> Vasanas are there even before the intellect or thoughts process
> and hence the time starts.  Hence it is before even the time is
> conceived. Shankara also says it is inexplicable -anirvachaneeyam -
> because the explanations belong the realm of intellect
> and thoughts.  It is before even the thoughts raise and it is the
> very cause for thoughts.  Logically it is perfect.

Sadaji:
What is logically perfect? Ramanujacharyar  and Madhwacharyar only
questions the assumptions of the model.  Your explanation just says that
the logic will become perfect only with the assumption! The visions of
Sankaracharyar, Ramanujacharyar and Madhwacharyar are different and
accordingly they have different explanations to the TRUTH.  Acceptance
of either of these visions subject to individual FAITH and  belief.


> ( The fact of  the matter is the other achaarya's although criticize advaita,
> do not have any better answers to the question - when and how this
> all started - their answer is it is all the leela of the Lord - His play -
> Christianity comes with similar vague answer as the original
> sin - but it is considered as blasphamy if one askes why I am
> borne when somebody else commited a sin -
> There is no answer.  This original sin is the anaadi)

Sadaji:
What is the definition of Better Answer? TRUTH is mystic and can't be
explained by the human intellect.  As long as the intellect is intact,
the questions will remain unanswered.  There can be no answers and
consequently there are no better or worse answers! For believers of one
FAITH, other answers become vague and this is the TRUTH!