The supreme goal

[Vaidya N. Sundaram]

On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Allan Curry wrote:
>
>     Yes, I too wonder if anyone on this list in particular
>     "knows how to attain jnanihood". There are a handful of
>     people among us who seem to imply they are jnanis and
>     they might then be able to tell us how to attain
>     jnanihood, but I doubt whether anyone on this list is
>     a perfectly realized being.

Namaste.
 I would like to disaggree with Allan's above comment. First of all
I would like to disagree with the statement that "a handfull of people
among us ... imply" ... My contention is that, we as list members
do not say or imply our own view points. We quote from authorities
and scriptures ... I think saying that members say so is not true at all.

Secondly, I want to reiterate a point I mentioed earlier. In Tamil there
is a saying attributed to Ramana Maharishi:

 kandavar vindilar
   Vindavar kandilar

It means that -
 those who have seen have not spoken
   those who speak have not seen.

>
>     If any list member is a jnani (a perfectly enlightened
>     being) then please take pity on us and simply say so.

 As I have just said, do not expect one who has seen to proclaim it.
He/she is there for all to see and learn from. Such a person is not
and will not proclaim for all the world to know. Even Acharyas do not
at any point answer questions as to whether they are realised.
But refusing to answer in itself is not a criterion to identify a person
as a fully liberated and realised Jiva.

>     If you are not a *perfectly* enlightened being then
>     please admit this by by your silence. If there *were*
>     any "pretenders to the throne" out there they might
>     just gracefully pretend to have not even read this  :-)

 Again, a pretender is the one who will claim to have seen this and
seen that!!

 Our main theme in these discussions is not to identify Jivanmuktas
or to find out whether a claim is valid or not. Our aim is to see for
ourselves.

> P.S.
>      Of course asking questions and answering them to the
>     best of our ability is a good thing and part of the
>     "purification process" which I whole heartedly support.
>     Claiming (falsely) to be enlightened is going the other
>     direction for both the claimant and anyone who listens
>     to him, IMO.

 As before, I am going to state the same thing again.
 We do not, I repeat, * WE * do not answer the questions to the
best of our ability. WE allways try to find the answers to our
questions by reading about it from the Upanishads or the teachings
of Great Acharyas. No amount of self introspection on our part can
get us an answer. This is not psychology where people like Freud can
use themselves as specimens and generalise and give answers. All that
pertains to the realm of the mind and the mind alone. What we seek
is beyond that!!

Cheers,
Vaidya.