doership, pre-ordained etc

[Gummuluru Murthy]

Over the previous year, "I" have argued on this List that
everything is pre-ordained. Some counter-points have been raised
by various list members. "I" like to present below some further
arguments to substantiate my point.

1.   If anyone says that things are not pre-ordained, and he/she
     is doing something due to  his/her own free-will to change
     his/her destiny (to better oneself), "I" would like to ask them,
     with respect, who they think they are, to have any input into
     future course of actions. My recent posting on ""I know",
     "I do" etc" is referred to here. If the proponents of the
     free-will concept think they are referring themselves at the
     worldly level, then they are inert and incapable of doing anything.
     Thus, there is no action and no doership. If the proponents of the
     free-will concept are referring themselves at the paramartha
     level, then there is no action (Nirguna Brahman, Atman is
     nishhkriya) and again there is no contribution by the
     indivdual to his/her "uplift". If they look at themselves at
     paramartha level, there is no thinking of uplift anyway,
     everything is poorNam, full and perfect. Thus, in either
     case, there is no action at all, and if anything is to be
     ordained at all, it was pre-ordained.

2.   Now, Isha upanishhad verse 1 is referred: tena tyaktena
     bhunjithaa; "By renunciation, enjoy (sat-chit-annanda)" says
     the advaitic interpretation. Renunciation is synonymous with
     poorNam, completeness. Thus, there is no thinking of making
     oneself better by one's effort. The same phrase is
     interpreted by vishishhTa-advaita and dvaita as "with what
     is given to you by the Lord, enjoy". Here again, there is no
     mention of contribution by humans to their own uplift either
     in worldly or paramArthic matters. Thus again, "I" would
     interpret this phrase as absence of free-will and everything
     is of pre-determinism.

3.   In addition to the above two points, we all agree that
     kartr^tva bhava should not be there and is false and is the
     result of ego only. Then, where from is this human
     contribution to his/her betterment coming up ?

The past history on the list shows this topic is a hot point of
discussion. "I" would hope that any response to this would be
made dispassionately, so that there is more light than heat.

Regards
Gummuluru Murthy
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Yadaa sarve pramucyante kaamaa ye'sya hr^di shritaah
atha martyo'mr^to bhavatyatra brahma samashnute   Katha Upanishhad II.3.14

When all the desires that dwell in the heart fall away, then the mortal
becomes immortal, and attains Brahman even here.
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