doership, pre-ordained etc

[Gummuluru Murthy]

On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, Ravi Mayavaram wrote:

>
> Related to  this topic on Mon, 21 Apr 1997 shriimati Savithri Devaraj
> wrote [1]
>
> " Last year, i was attending a workshop on Bhagavad Gita in Arsha
> Vidya Gurukulam, Pennsylvania by Swami Viditatmananda Saraswathi.  The
> participants asked their doubts about the role of Fate and Free Will.
> I am paraphrasing what he said.  "It is hard to draw a line between
> Fate and Free will.  It depends on who you are talking to.  But for
> guidelines, you have to assume that you have the sole responsibility
> to shape your future through Free will, but see what is past as Fate."
> This impressed me.  I thought i'll share this with you all."
>
> I personally think this a very nice and working model. It has
> clarified my thoughts so much. I would like to ask those who deny the
> existence of freewill, how do they demonstrate it in their day-today
> life? Proof of the pudding is in tasting it!!
>

In the text below, I refers to the worldly I, the intellect of this
jeeva.

I think it is a very good working model too. But it has its drawbacks.
Jonathan Bricklin pointed out some in his post "Non-reality of free-will".
I like to take a slightly different approach.

If past is fate and future is what a jeeva can shape, then let us take a
series of time-sequence steps. According to the above model then, as an
example,

September 22, 2:00 p.m., whatever happened up till then is fate and what
is going to happen is jeeva's own contribution.

September 22, 4:00 p.m., whtever happened up till then is fate and what
is going to happen is jeeva's own contribution.

September 22, 6:00 p.m., whatever happened up till then is fate and what
is going to happen is jeeva's own contribution  and so on

Thus, everything reduces to fate only and what jeeva thinks as free-will
is also fate.

I personally do not like the word "fate" in the discussion, as in my
view, fate and pre-ordained have different meanings.

"Fate" is a word that comes up when the individual jeeva does not do
anything but is ready either to enjoy the happenings or suffer the
sorrows. The emphasis here is: the jeeva is associated with the result.
Further, the word "fate" has connotation of thamasic inaction.

In the post at the beginning of this thread, I did not use the word
"fate". Thus, in the scenario that I suggested, the jeeva will be doing
his/her duty [kurvanneva iha karmANi,  Isha u. verse 2]; will not be
thinking about the result, but doing his/her duty. At the same time, the
jeeva does not take ownership for the action that was done. Thus, there is
nothing done by that jeeva for which the jeeva claims ownership. I
certainly do not see the free-will of the jeeva. I also do not see fate.
But I do see things happening the way they are supposed to happen. As
Shri Vidyasankar said sometime ago, both fate and free-will are within
the realm of maaya and are products of avidya.

Further, "pre-ordained" is not the right word either. The sanskrit word
"prArabdha" describes this quite well. I do not know the single english
word that describes that feeling.

Now Shri Ravi asks for a demonstration of the lack of free-will. I do not
think this (lack of free-will) requires demonstration. I have shown
(I think) theoretically in my previous post that the concept of free-will
cannot exist. Demonstration of this is in our actions. Shri RamaNa
Maharshhi's quote given by Shri Ravi and produced below is a good
demonstration. Beyond that, the jeeva cannot produce any other
demonstration. Whose is this demonstration for, anyway ?

> Strength of praarabdham cannot be denied. For instance bhagavaan ramaNa
> mahaR^ishhi while replying to his mother in negative (when she
> implored him to return), says
>
> "avaravar praarabdhap prakaaram athaRkaanavan aangirunthu aaTTuvippan
> enRum; naDavaatathu en cheyyinum naDavaathu; naDappathu enRadai
> cheyyinum nillathu; ithuvE thiNNam. enave maunaamaay irrukkai nanRu"
>
>
> "According to one's praarabdha karma, iishwara controls one's
> life. Whatever that is bound to happen will happen. Whatever that is
> not bound to happen will not happen, however hard you may try! This is
> certain. So it is better to remain silent [as a witness]."
>

Further, Shri Ravi says

> moved by the power of this verse. To someone who is worried who will
> take care of himself if he is going to engage in aatma vichaara
> instead of doing something for livelihood[2], this gives enormous
> motivation. Don't worry! You will live as long you are destined to by
> your praarabdham whether you like it not. It is will nourish your
> body. It is the task of iishwara, you just go ahead with courage and
> unwavering mind to do svaadhyayam and atmaa vichara!
>

> [2] But I do not have the courage to demonstrate it. Otherwise I will
> not be living the life as I do, crossing continents for Ph.D in avidya
> and for money in this ephemeral world, forsaking my dharma and
> wallowing in the mud of materialism.
>

In my view, doing something for livlihood and engaging in aatma vichaara
are not contradictory or mutually exclusive. Crossing continents for
Ph.D. in avidya is prArabdha for most of us jeevas. [Here prArabdha is
used not in a negative way but as the path assigned for us]. I would like
to know the english word which comes very close to describing what
prArabdha means.

kurvanneva iha karmANi.

>
> dhanyavaad
>
> with love and respects,
> Ravi
>

Regards
Gummuluru Murthy
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Yadaa sarve pramucyante kaamaa ye'sya hr^di shritaah
atha martyo'mr^to bhavatyatra brahma samashnute   Katha Upanishhad II.3.14

When all the desires that dwell in the heart fall away, then the mortal
becomes immortal, and attains Brahman even here.
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