ADMIN: Re: no subject (fwd)

Jaldhar H. Vyas jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM
Mon Apr 6 12:59:54 CDT 1998

[cced in case the poster is no longer on the list.]

I disagree with Ravi only in the matter of tactics.  He is absolutely
right to point out people are veering off-topic.

> The
> seers and sages did not put limitations to the discussants
> and the
> discussions.

Actually they did.  They tailored their teaching to the adhikar of the
students and conducted discussion acording to the cannons of logic and the
words of the Vedas.

>Their messages are eternal and beyond the narrowly defined
> religious notions.

Their messages _are _ the religious notions.  And they only seem narrow to
you because you don't know much about them.

> Their perspective was  not by the intellectual
> notion of  Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, etc.,

No their perspective was the intellectual notion of Vedanta.

>  Inclusion of new
> ideas and open expression of viewpoints are an integral part of our
> tradition.

By  all means let us look at other viewpoints.  But having looked at them
it is incumbent on us to use some vivek and reject the ones which are no

> Other religious forums may follow strict rules and
> regulations to limit free expressions.  We don't want to limit our
> vision like the "frog in the well" and we want to explore like the
> "frog in the ocean."  Our goal is to reach the "limitless" and we have
> no reasons to imitate others and bond us with the limitations.

What seems like a limit depends on the intelligence of the observer and
the ignorant person will see limits where none exist.  Case in point my
mother is a teacher and she sometimes has deal with our newly-arrived
Gujarati parents who want their children to get jobs instead of a good
education.  Many of them were farmers back in India and in their simple
minds it seems silly for their children to waste their time with pedantic
book-knowledge in a university "limiting" the amount of money they could
make if they had a job in some grocery store or news stand instead.  But
is that a very sensible position to take in the long run? The proper
practice of Advaita Vedanta is difficult and lengthy but at the end the
rewards are great.  It is laziness that makes us try and take shortcuts.

> Advaita relates to "everything,"  "everyone" and "every-topic."  When we
> attempt to define "Advaita," subject to our own preferences and
> prejudices, we limit the limitless and bind the boundless!

That's why we don't subject it our own preferences but to the path laid
down for us by the Jagadgurus of today back to Adya Shankaracharya back to
Narayana Bhagawan Himself.

> This does
> not necessarily mean that we should have guidelines.  The sole objective
> for the guidelines is to promote positive messages, curtail negative and
> meaningless debates and avoid foul languages.

Who defines "positive" or "meaningless"?  What if one isn't disturbed by
foul language so much.  (I'm not.)  Your solution also involves setting
arbitrary limits.  In that case why not use the limits set by the Advaita
parampara itself?

> I suggest the list owner
> to appoint a group of dedicated volunteers to read all the messages
> without using the "D" key.  When inappropriate messages or debates
> continue, they can send feedback to Ravi and Ravi should send polite
> warnings to the responsible discussants privately.   Ravi has mentioned
> the names of  Vidyasankar, Anand, Sadananda and Jaladhar and he should
> also include himself  and Govind.   Ravi preferably should consult his
> group members before sending the warning message to the offender.  I
> believe such an arrangement has the potential to  keep the free-forum
> without diluting the principles.  My suggestion will require some
> sacrifices of personal time from a dedicated group of members,  but this
> may become necessary to keep the forum to meet its objectives!

I don't know about anyone else but I have a limited amount of time.
Rather than spending time cleaning up after someone elses mess, I'd rather
help them avoid making a mess thereby saving their time _and_ mine.

Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at>

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