the Nature of realization (please ignore previous post)

[f. maiello]

sadananda wrote:

> Blessed Self,
> Enjoyed your discussions.

namaskaar.  Likewise, as usual.

> It could be just the semantics as long as the vision is clear, with no more
> doubts about the nature and the means for mukti, the liberation or
> realization.

> [...]

> Your statement -> In this sense, the
> >jiva can only recognize what is ajnana.  The idea that there is a positive
> >shift in awareness within the jiva itself is one of the most misleading
> >assumptions being made -
>
> This has to be understood clearly.
>
> As long as he is still recognizing aJNaana, he is still in aJNaana since he
> is there to recognize aJNaana.
>
> A true negation by Jiiva involves a dissolution of jiiva itself,  and can
> only occur with the positive assertion of oneself as the self in all -
> Essentially it implies that one cannot truly negate ( I am  obviously
> excluding a process involving thought negating another thought as I am
> not this, neti neti etc.) without the assertion of I am sat chit ananda.
> Both are the same thing looking  differently.

Yes, in the above "assertion of I am sat chit ananda," the I am is thekernal of
brahman, as atman, hid within the spectrum of jiva.  But
the jiva, *unto itself* (which, by definition, is what it believes itself
to be: a separate reality....thus dvaitic), is only mithya.

It's clear that I misunderstood your wording.   I had a feeling it was
this all along.

OM shaanthiH.

>From  Tue Apr 28 20:28:47 1998
Message-Id: <TUE.28.APR.1998.202847.0400.>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:28:47 -0400
Reply-To: ramakris at erols.com
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
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From: Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian <ramakris at EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: the Nature of realization
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Gummuluru Murthy wrote:

> Certainly! this is the point of view of an unrealized. However, please
> note that "ever content" that is used in the above paragraph is not
> different from the "nitya tr^pto" which Shri Shankara uses in
> Viveka ChuDAmaNi, verse 543, which is part of my earlier post.

Sure. I did not deny that. Still, it's the unrealized who think the
GYAni is ever-content etc. Note that in the same work he also denies
that there is prArabdha for the GYAni. So what can "unfold" for the
GYAni?

The reason I pointed out this is that there are people who pretend that
they "witness" everything (as long as things go their way), watching
things "unfold", etc and used this as an excuse to do whatever pleases
them. They even claim to be GYAni-s or close to that. I actually know
someone like this (a little advaita is a dangerous thing!) and he got
into big time trouble. That's why I always point out these things.

Even in the Talks with RM we can see incidents where people came to the
Ashrama and pretended they were either realized or close to that. So
it's nothing new. Even Duryodhana used such excuses, BTW.

Rama.
>From omkar at giasdl01.vsnl.net.in Wed Apr 29 16:42:31 1998
Message-Id: <WED.29.APR.1998.164231.0530.OMKAR at GIASDL01.VSNL.NET.IN>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:42:31 +0530
Reply-To: Swami Vishvarupananda <omkar at giasdl01.vsnl.net.in>
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Swami Vishvarupananda <omkar at GIASDL01.VSNL.NET.IN>
Subject: THE HIGHEST BLISS
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A chapter from Yoga-VaasiSTha:

THE GLORY OF THE STATE OF THE HIGHEST BLISS

Pondering over the glory of Self, getting rid of the mind of activities, and
leaving aside contemplation one becomes pure and serene. Never thinking of
the world, the likes and dislikes, seeing the seer and the sight as one, and
never seeing them as different, One becomes pure and serene. With the utmost
attention and concentration on the Brahman and the most indiference towards
the path of worldliness, one becomes pure and serene. With the highest
renunciation till the end, of the good things as well as the bad things,
pleasures and pains (good and pleasing at the time of enoyment and
afterwards bad and painful) one beomes pure and serene. By being one with
the Self, by destroying the sky of ignorance and by utter cessation of the
pleasures of the flesh one becomes pure and serene. When all avarice is
destroyed with the utter destruction of desires and fickleness, one becomes
pure and serene and full like the river in the rainy season. Cutting asunder
the net of vasanas by the sword of renunciation just as the rat cuts off the
net for birds, and clearing the heart of dust and dirt, one becomes pure and
very serene. Just as the paste of the kataka seed clears water of dirt,
knowledge makes the mind pure and serene. By detachment, disassociation,
desisting dualism and dejecting any other prop than the knowledge of the
Self, the mind gets out of ignorance, just as the bird from the cage. When
all doubts subside, the mind becomes devoid of illusion, and full inside
shines bright like the full Moon. With the cessation of the wind, the ocean
becomes calm; the mind of the knower of the Self becomes pure and serene
with equanimity all over, which is the highest beauty and the greatest
virtue. To him, the mind-confusing ignorance vanishes just as thick darkness
vanishes with the rise of the Sun. The pure sky becomes bright with the
spreading of the rays of the Sun, the lotus of discrimination shines bright
in the lake of the heart with the rise of the Sun of Pure Consciousness. To
him increases the quality of virtues the fair and the fascinating, and his
mind becomes cool and serene like the rays of the Moon. Why many words, like
the interior of the pure sky, he becomes devoid of both birth and death. He
becomes the full knower of the knowable. In the eye of the realized soul,
even Brahma, Vishnu and Siva become pitiable souls. The eye of the realized
soul gets rid of egotism, it will never be confused with the ups and downs
of the world, just as the waters of the mirage will not tempt a wise animal.
Due to the effect of vasanas, the beings rise and fall like waves in the
ocean. Birth and death are only to the ignorant, not at all to the realized
soul. The world with all its appearance and disappearance is only to the
ignorant and not to the wise; so the knower of Self enjoys the world, by
which he is not bound, whereas the ignorant is bound by it. Whether the pot
is there or not the sky remains forever. Thus whether the body is praised or
blamed, the soul remains without birth, death or changes. Just as with the
Moon rise the mirage disappears, with the growth of discrimination, the
false and illusory vasanas dlisappear, "Who am I? How did the world come
into existence?" So long as one does not think and does not solve these
questions the false ghostly world remains troubling forever. He is the real
seer, who looks at the world as false and essenceless, born of false
illusion and responsible for all sorts of dangers. He is the real seer who
sees that the woes and wonders of all kinds are only for the body and not
the Self, the real full form of reality and who is above all illusions. He
is the real seer, who sees the whole world of the endless quarters as the
Self spread all over. He is the real seer, who sees himself as the smallest
millionth and millionth part of the end of a piece of hair, though
all-spreading. He is the real seer, who sees the whole world of all beings
as nothing but the Pure Consciousness and sees the world as not different fr
om the Brahman. He is the real seer, who sees the Chidatman the
all-powerful, the endless and the only One, in all the things of the world.
He is the real seer who sees that he is not the body, full with worries and
diseases, possessing birth and death. He is the real seer who sees that his
glory is a11-pervading up, down and side-ways and that he is second to none.
He is the real seer, who sees the world as bedecked in him like the gems
woven together by the string, and who sees that the mind is not himself. He
is the real seer who sees that there is absolutely no egotism, no world
except the Brahman, and who sees his own real form. He is the rea1 seer, who
sees the three worlds as his limbs, as the waves are the limbs of the ocean,
and actually experiences them so. He is the real seer who sees with the best
eyes the ideas Yours and Mine as of the Brahman. He is the real seer who
sees Pure Consciousness devoid of senses, the all-spreading throughout the
length and breadth of all the worlds. He is the real seer, who sees and
experiences happiness and unhappiness, the qualities of discrimination etc.
as himself. He is the real seer, who sees the world as the Brahman, full and
ever joyful and who thinks that there is nothing to be shunned as sorrowful
and nothing to accept as joyful. He is the man, the realized soul, who
destroys the idea of acceptance or rejection as he possesses firm knowledge
that the world is the form of Sat, reality, the understanding of which is
beyond logic, beyond doubt and beyond suspicion. He who like the sky has
only one soul, though spread in all things as full, without having their
form or any attachment to them is the worthy Maheswara, who enjoys unalloyed
joy ever and anon. One who is free from the three states of waking, dreaming
and sound sleep who is fine and a friend of death, who treats all quite
equally and who is firmly established in the fourth tureeya state deserves
our prostrations richly. I offer my salutations to the one who is beyond
birth and death, who holds the greatest idea that the whole world is no
other than the Brahman, the creator, the sustainer and the destroyer of the
worlds, who is the personifiction of the final knowledge and who is Parama
Siva Himself.