Bhagavad kr^pa (grace of God)

[sadananda]

Sri Gummaluru Murthy wrote:
>
>I would like to think this way. Wherever there is a jeeva, there is
>avidya. Wherever there is avidya, there is jeeva. Without jeeva, there is
>no avidya; and without avidya, there is no jeeva. Thus, avidya and jeeva
>are synonymous.

What  you say appears to be logical.  But when we go to sushupti state,
there is avidya as non-apprehension, but there is no mis-apprehension.  I
am an individual - I am this body, this mind and this intellect - that
notion with ego is Jeeva.  In the deep sleep state, there are no notions.
At the same time there is no knowledge that I am the total either.  Hence
in that state pure non-apprehension is there but the mis-apprehension that
I am this and this is not there.

The anaadi aspect and Jeeva concept  is beautifully discussed by Swami
Chinmayanandaji in his explanation to Sankara's Atmabodha text for the
sloka:
         anaadyavidyaa anirvaachya
         kaaranopadhiruchyate|
anaadi - beginning -less refers to time concept - time is born when there
are two sequential events (thoughts) arise in the consciousness, as the gap
between the two events. Hence time is the third event in the creation
process. This is pictured in the Bible as the sun who is the symbol of time
was created on the third day (or third event in the creation process). In
the Chandigya that quoted before - it says -
 tad aikshyata, buhusyam, prajaayeyeti.

tad refers to the sat which was there before creation as one without a second.

It saw, decided to become many, gave birth to many. Since it is one without
a second, it saw implies that it become self conscious, since there is
nothing else to see. Thus there is a first thought - I am - Then the second
thought as a desire in I am and then many - From then on the creation of
the five elements etc.

If I understand correctly the notion of Jeeva and avidya are both before
the birth of the time concept.  Jeeva should be a product of avidya - non-
apprehension leading to misapprehension.  I am,  is not the problem  but I
am this and this, is the problem.     But frankly, both are beyond the
concept of the intellect.  Hence this cannot be intellectually settled.  If
you feel they are synonyms so be it.  May be in the state of meditation
when we realize, we will ourselves will know the truth, which is beyond all
these understandings and misunderstandings.

Hari Om!

Sadananda



>Avidya and jeeva have the same beginning and the same end (if jeeva and
>avidya have beginning at all). Advaita literature says avidya is anAdi,
>without beginning. Would the same thing not apply for a jeeva also ?
>Further, is not "Adi", the beginning, a concept associated with avidya
>also ?
>
>I would be grateful for clarification.
>
>>
>> Hari Om!
>> Sadananda
>>
>>
>
>Regards
>Gummuluru Murthy
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>... aham bhAvodayAbhAvo bodhasya paramAvadhih ...
>                        Shri Shankara in Viveka ChuDAmaNi (verse 424)
>
>The end of the rise of the sense of "I" of the ego is the culmination
>of knowledge.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------


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