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[Devendra Vyas]

dear jaldhar,
              since i don't think any one of us is a realized soul,it is
difficult to say with certainity whose knowledge of advaita needs
revision.who says to ignore karma?,i say ,stress on the spirit not on the
letter.stress on the uttar-mimamsa rather than the purva-mimamsa.we must
discuss karma as explained by the lord in the gita but we should not indulge
in vain disputation like the priests.let us have a dynamic,modernist,topical
debate on jnana,karma not on mere outward appendages like 'shika'.we must
apply the principles of the ancients in the modern,present context.even the
lord comes in every age to deliver the eternal message in the current
context.now ,don't say that we need no such interpretation,application;we
need it-it is not possible,nor is it necessary to follow the ancients in
word/deed(remember they did'nt have emails,so why are we using
emails??indeed there may be even a shloka by some obscure brahmin that:"it
is wrong to communicate(send emails) without taking a bath",so should we
follow it blindly??)it is important to follow the ancients in spirit not
merely in letter.this was what was meant by swami.vivekananda,but as usual,
you took it in the literal way,which is what i am complaining
against.believe me ,i too am as saddened as you .
wishing for constructive response.
                         nothing personal-devendra.


>From: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
><ADVAITA-L at braincells.com>
>To: ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG
>Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:21:17 -0400
>
>On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Devendra Vyas wrote:
>
> > namaste all,
> >                with due respect to all,i wish to say that there is some
> > truth in the observation that-'there are many futile ,text-torturing
>debates
> > in advaita'.
> > of course,nothing in existence is futile,but it is sometimes very
>amusing to
> > note people who profess to think and meditate on the
> > ultimate,highest,grandest,abstract,most abstruse truth get caught up in
> > matters and debates most trifle.
> > everything in maya has got merits and faults,and our beloved advaita
> > list is no exception(let us admit this truth),
> > it is true that sometimes we
> > list members too indulge in debates and points which frankly do not
>behove
> > us and are quite childish in depth and content.
>
>I'll admit this list and its members have faults but I don't see any
>evidence of childish discussions in either depth or content.  What do you
>mean?
>
> > i personally feel that 2 types of persons get attracted to advaita:
> > 1.those attracted to it's philosophy for intellectual satisfaction.
>
>Why make a distinction between intellectual and spiritual satisfaction?
>God put brains in our heads so we would use them. What is not spiritual
>about thinking?  How is it any less of an "experience" than anything else?
>
> > 2.those attracted to it for it's profound and sublime value which alone
>can
> > lead to true knowledge.
>
>knowledge is knowledge is knowledge.  Whether the knowledge is of
>basketball, or chemistry or Vedanta the methods of acquisition are the
>same.  Learning to use the Internet requires pretty profound and sublime
>knowledge.  How did you manage to do that?  You must do the same to
>learn Vedanta.  Why should religion be the only field of human endeavor
>where ignorance is considered a virtue rather than the vice it is
>everywhere else?
>
> > it is obvious that the former(1.) have not really understood advaita and
> > have mistaken the chaff for the grain.
>
>On the contrary, they realize it all too well.  They realize that the
>world of "experience" is false and that only through the mental power of
>viveka can they hope to move beyond it.
>
> > i would like to end with a quote by the one of the greatest advaitins of
>the
> > present age,
>
>This in itself is debatable!
>
> > swami.vivekananda:
> > "you must not merely learn what the rishis taught.those rishis are
>gone,and
> > their opinions are also gone with them.you must be rishis yourselves.
>
>So why quote vivekananda?  He is also dead and gone.  Why indulge in such
>"text-torturing"?
>
>I can't believe anyone who claims to be a faithful expositor of our
>heritage would make a comment as downright dumb as "The Rshis are gone and
>their opinions are also gone with them." They are the guides in matters
>practical and philosophical to millions even today--far more people than
>ever set foot in the RK mission.
>
> > you are
> > also men as much as the greatest men that were ever born-even our
> > incarnations.what can mere book learning do?
>
>this is a bogus argument.  In our religion, even when texts are studied it
>is the context of a guru-shishya relationship. I have a large library at
>home but it would mean nothing without the contact I've had with the
>eternal and unbroken chain of tradition.  There is no "mere book learning"
>going on.  Imagine what the fate of mankind would be if we had to relearn
>everything every generation.  We'd still be cavemen!  But luckily, we can
>build on the efforts and achievements of previous generations.
>
> > what can meditation do even?what
> > can the mantras and tantras do?you must stand on your own feet."
>
>No doubt Vivekanandas audience found such flattery quite to their liking.
>"Hey, I'm the greatest man that ever lived.  I don't have to know
>anything or do anything or listen to anyone." But do you think people
>who insult Gurus, shastras, and Devas, will ever end up as anything
>other than egotists of the worst kind?  If the ground beneath your
>feet is shaky you may stand for a second but then you'll fall over again.
>
>
> > after all,advaita reminds us of our divinity,our infinite potential-it
>does
> > not advise us to become  mere intellectual addicts.
>
>Do you have a job?  Unless you are a beggar, a labourer or a farmer, it
>probably requires intellectual effort.  But when it comes to making money,
>why nobody scared of becoming an "intellectual addict"?  Yet again for
>religious matters this somehow becomes a big deal.  The human race would
>be better off if there were more intellectual addicts and less ignorance
>addicts.
>
> > i hope the esteemed members take my words in the right spirit and don't
> > misunderstand me.here's hoping for a advaita list which takes the
>debates
> > and discussions to a new,higher level where we can have the joy of
>really
> > discussing the evernew knowledge of advaita.---devendra.
> >
>
>I understand what you are saying.  It doesn't anger me but rather, saddens
>me.  There is high level discussion of Advaita Vedanta going on but for
>some reason you do not seem to be able to see it.  I hope you will take
>the time to try and understand why things are the way they are rather than
>make rash judgements based on incomplete information.
>
>--
>Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>
>--
>bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam
>
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