Jivan mukti and Advaita

[Ashish Chandra]

Venkataram wrote:
>    In other words, only jiivanmukta-s  (those who have attained
>brahma-jnaana, and    are still tenanting a body can  be  competent
>guru-s to propagate advaita.
>
>     This is perhaps why jiivan mukti is considered *essential* in
>advaita.
>
>
>     I shall be grateful if any flaws in this  argument are pointed out
>and
>     rectified  by anyone who has made a deeper study.
>

Namaskar,

I have not made any deep study of this topic but would like to point out
what I have understood so far:

As far as the question of a Guru is concerned, the real Guru is the Atman
itself that provides the inspiration for Mukti also. A real-life Guru helps
to a very great extent but cannot be held to being essential (is this
correct?) I am not entirely certain but Sri Ramana Maharishi became Realized
by, as he put it in his own words, trying to answer the question "Who am I".

Jiva will remain deluded of its true nature (Brahman) till mukti occurs.
Till then, some layers of Maya remain for the Jiva, whether it is within
this body, or without. So going by this logic, Advaitam cannot be said to
pertain just to Mrityulok. If jivanmukti is defined as being the state of
having attained mukti in Mrityulok (i.e. this body), then clearly the
jivanmukti is, for want of a better analogy, a subset of Advaitam and hence
jivanmukti cannot be said to be *essential* to Advaitam although it is
possible to achieve Mukti here and now.

Not to drag this topic too far, I think from what I have learned here so
far, jivanmukti is *not essential* to Advaitam although it is certainly
possible.

I would be happy is any further clarifications are forthcoming from
honorable members.

ashish

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>From  Mon Sep 27 15:41:23 1999
Message-Id: <MON.27.SEP.1999.154123.0800.>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:41:23 +0800
Reply-To: venkataraman at pacific.net.sg
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
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From: Venkataraman <venkataraman at PACIFIC.NET.SG>
Organization: Venkataraman
Subject: Re: krama mukti
Comments: To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
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   Aravind Krishna wrote:
>
> Thanks for clarifying things.
>
> My base objective for such questions to qualified people is due to the fact
> that most people in the clan of Vedanta, think that bakthi is some thing
> that is prescribed for people of lower caliber. They come with a hand full
> of references and say that ’ saguna upasana is just like studying ABCD , How
> long will you study that ?., its for kids’.
> Practically we seldom see a person neglecting bakthi getting qualities like
> discrimination, dispassion, kindred virtue or a titanic longing for
> liberation. Actually all these qualifications are attained through bakthi in
> course of time with ease with out even striving hard for it.
..........


   SaguNa brahma upasana is nowhere given a lower status in advaita.
On the other hand, Samkara has encouraged it by himself composing many
devotional hymns.

   The Advaita ideal is to identify oneself with Brahman, whether
nirguNa or saguNa is not the point. The concept of Isvara with
attributes is easier to comprehend than an attributes brahman, and
facilitates bhakti, intense love and devotion as a means to cleanse
one's mind and make it ready to realize the Truth.

   In the initial stages SaguNa upasana involves a sense of duality.
The devotee feels himself to be separate from Isvara whom he
worships.  But by and by this attitude should change.  Devotion in
the  Advaita system implies adopting an attitude of non-difference
between the worshipper and the worshipped.  Awareness is to be
cultivated that the Paramatman who appears as Isvara is the same as
the Paramatman that has become the devotee.  Such awareness is jnaana.

   The concept of Bhakti is different in other systems of philosophy,
where the Jiiva is said to be ever different from NaaraayaNa , not
only while in bondage but also after being liberated.


---  V.M.Sundaram

--
bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam

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