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S. V. Subrahmanian svs_shankara at HOTMAIL.COM
Tue Jun 13 17:08:46 CDT 2000

Shri Daveji,

Below is the mail that you wrote in response to my question.  Thank you for
taking time to explain.  But my questions still remain.  Before I state my
queries, I hope I am not bothering you.  Refer to your statement "open to
further discussion, if thought worth it".  I don't know if you mean it is
not worth it.  I am presuming you are amenable to more questions, but if it
is too trivial please ignore and I will deduce that myself.

1.  Usage of "things" instead of "Gods".  My perception has always been that
these Gods are fractional manifestations of Brahman and hence the word
"Bhaya" some how does not fit in with my understanding, for I cannot
understand how a part of Brahman can have "Bhaya" towards its own self (I
have read the original interpretation of Bhaya as fear by Shri Jaldharji and
later correction as acceptance of authority by the next person?).  But I can
sense the elements accepting the authority of the Brahman and hence I used
the word things.  Also in your statements you have said "Surya represents
the awarer".  Why didn't you say "Surya is the awarer" if you visualized
them as Gods?

(I am asking the above in a very polite manner - I don't know how to
indicate that through emoticons on the mail)

2.  Even the explanation below though makes sense individually, as a
collection (of Gods) seems very random.  They don't seem to form a cohesive
collection of Gods which represents anything.

3.  It is not in this verse, but in other locations too, for eg., "sam no
mitra. sam varuna. sam no bhavatvaryama, sam na indro brihaspatihi.....".
How did the Rishi choose these Gods as opposed to others here and some other
set elsewhere.  I agree each God represents (or is) something.  But why
these not others here or elsewhere ??

Shri Daveji wrote:

An interesting question. I notice that you say "these 5 things" and not
"these 5 gods". Good. I shall be brief (open to further discussion, if
thought worth it) :

Brahma  seems to be matifested via a certain hierarchy, out of
which 5 things (as you put it) are given here :

Surya -- represents the awarer (experient) in the sva.h state, i.e.,
equivalent to Anandmaya Kosha or the most abstract level experient, what
we would call chidaabhaasa; (it is also used to represent the aprameya
Atma, but not here in these two slokas); this also corresponds to Para
level of Vak;

Vayu -- represents the awarer in bhuva.h state, equivalent to Vij~nanamaya
kosha, at mid level, corresponds to Pashyanti level of Vak;

Agni -- represents the awarer in bhuu.h state, equivalent to Manomaya
Kosha, at lowest level, corresponding to Madhyama Vak;

Indra -- represents the ever present Ego,  Ahamkara, the "I" (except
the I in nirvikalpa state), it is present in all the three states bhuu.h,
bhuva.h and sva.h;

mrutyu -- also called yama, represents the concept of Time (and space)
and not death; (death is only a symptom of Time); mrutyu can also be
as Fundamental Ignorance, which make a jeeva see the world as non-atma,
(but not here).

As will be noticed from the above, these five refer to the states through
which the Creation, as far as a jeeva is concerned, takes place. The shlokas
say that all these states work due to authority of Brahma. (Ref.
in Kenopanishad)

I hope it helps!
-- Himanshu

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