Reposting: Question on Incarnations

[K.N.Venkataraman]

Dear Sir:

My inbox is getting flooded by the individual messages - is
there any way in which I can view all the posts to the
group without getting individual messgaes?

Thanks


 --- "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Chandrashekaran Venkataraman wrote:
>
> > >> Chandrasekaran wrote:
> > >> So, after all what was "really" great in Sri
> Krishna's embodiment ?
> >
> > > Jaladhar wrote:
> > >Have YOU tried killing an asura lately? :-)
> >
> >    I am NOT questioning the greatness of the Lord,
> which doesn't need
> > any reasoning like you have given here.
>
> I didn't think you were.  The smiley after my reply was
> meant to suggest
> that portion of it wasn't altogether serious.  But on
> reflection, I think
> it is true that were we in Arjunas position, most of us
> would react with
> the same fear when confronted with the total presence of
> God.  Sometimes
> hearing people make statements such as "I am one with
> God" seem awfully
> glib.  There is no doubt that understanding the full
> import of such a
> concept is no minor undertaking!
>
> >    I have double-quoted "really" as above.. by which I
> desired to know
> > what is in reality the greatness of the embodiment,
> given that as per
> > advaita the incarnation itself didn't happen at all. I
> know that we are
> > exchanging these questions and clarifications at a
> mundane level.. But
> > if we are to read Gita and understand it literally and
> then advaita tells
> > us that actually Krishna didn't incarnate, it's
> confusing.
> >
>
> Again we are in good company because Arjuna also tells
> Krishna Bhagawan
> that several times, "Stop, you're confusing me.  Explain
> again!"
>
> "Really" there are no avatars.  Nor is there anyone to
> see those avatars.
> At the beginning of the fourth chapter
> (karmabrahmArpaNayoga,) Krishna
> Bhagawan tells Arjuna that this knowledge was known in
> ancient times
> by Surya Bhagawan who taught it to Manu His sone who
> taught it to his
> descendents the Rajarshis.  (Incidentally Arjuna is the
> descendent of
> those same Suryavamshi Kshatriyas.)  Arjuna asks Him how
> could He who was
> born a few years ago know such an ancient thing?  Krishna
> Bhagawan tells
> him:
>
> bahUni me vyatItAni janmAni tava chArjuna |
> tAnyahaM veda sarvaNi na tvaM vettha paraMtapa || 5 ||
>
> Many births of mine have passed and yours Arjuna,
> I know them all but you don't know them Parantapa
>
> [This is the greatness.  What Bhagawan teaches is the
> complete and
> untainted knowledge which we do not know because of
> avidya.]
>
> ajo'pi sannavyayAtmA bhUtAnAmIshvaro'pi san |
> prakrtiM svAmadhiShThaya saMbhavAmyAtmamayayA || 6 ||
>
> I am the Unborn and Formless and the Lord of All
> Creatures,
> Nevertheless, entering My prakrti, I become born through
> My Maya.
>
> [It is in samsara which is afflicted by Maya that avatars
> occur.  It is
> also only there where anyone needs to be saved or
> destroyed or taught.]
>
> > Please point to me some verses in Gita where Krishna
> gives hints to
> > advaita thoughts that He is same as Arjuna.
>
> There are many but the following from
> kshetrakshetrajnayoga (chaper 13)
> commes immediately to mind:
>
> idaM sharIraM kaunteya kshetramityabhidhIyate |
> etadho vetti taM prAhuH kshetrajna iti tadvidaH || 2 ||
>
> This body Kaunteya, is known as the field. And the one
> who understands
> this body is called the knower of the field.
>
> kshetrajnaM chApi mAM viddhi sarvakshetreShu bhArata |
> kshetrakshetrajnayorjnAnaM tattajjnAnaM mataM mam || 3 ||
>
> Know Me as the knower of the field residing in every body
> Bharata!
> Knowledge of this [relationship between] field and knower
> of the field is
> Jnana in my opinion.
>
> > >> If He is same as the one Universal Soul that is all
> of us (as one), who
> > >> are those "sAdhUs" and "dhushkr~ths" in that verse
> "parithrANAya
> > sAdhUnAm" ?
> > >> So are there different levels of defining a True
> statement..
> >
>
> Yes. As Bhagawan says in karmayoga (chapter 3)
>
> prakrteH kriyamANAni guNaiH karmaNi sarvashaH |
> ahaMkAravimuDhAtmA kartAhamiti manyate || 27 ||
>
> Truly all actions are the result of Prakrtis three gunas.
> But deluded by ego, the self thinks "I am a doer."
>
> >   Here again I think I should have brought out my
> question more clearly.. I
> > wanted to know if "a" statement made in Gita has
> different levels of its
> > Truthfulness.. ie., in other words for an early
> aspirant it's all true but
> > for a realised soul it's not.. Are there such different
> levels of defining
> > some Truth?
>
> Well I hope the above quotes have clarified things.
> Arjuna must act
> because of his particular circumstances and mental
> condition.  But in the
> "big picture" actions are actually not happening.
>
>
> --
> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>

=====
-----------------------
"Strive for Excellence"

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