A dharmic question! (fwd)

[ravi chandrasekhara]

Dear Jaldhar,

Do the Shastras also accept anuloma vivaha where the
Kshatriya (or Vaisya) wife of a Brahmin male, to be
the primary and only wife, as long as she is too from
a Dvija (kshatriya or vaisya)family ? It is my
understanding the progeny are Brahmins in the case of
Brahmin male marrying a Kshatriya female.  Richika, a
Brahmin, married Viswamitra's sister a Kshatriya and
their son Jamadagni was a Brahmin who married a
Suryavamshi Kshatriya princess Renuka and they had 4
sons, including Bhagawan Parashurama.  It is my
understanding that a Brahmin male with Sudras,
Panchamas (popularly known as Harijans), Tribals,
mlechas (foreigners) isnt approved of and progeny are
not Brahmins.  Pratiloma vivahas (female is higher
caste than the male) in general are not approved, some
consider a sin, and the progeny are considered sudra
or lower.

Thanks for your upcoming response.

Pranam, Ravi Chandrasekhara MD
--- "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM> wrote:
> > Hello sri Jaladhar,
> >
> > I am Ramkumar. a list member. I have a dharmic
> question. Please forward it
> > to list as I want to know list members opinion.
> >
> > *********Begining of mail****
> > Can a bramhin boy marry a Kshatriya woman? What
> are the prerequisites to be
> > met if it can be done? What would be the status of
> offspring?
> > I need satraic position with appropriate
> references.
> > I need answers for this question as one of my
> dearest friend is deeply  in
> > love with Kshatriya girl and he has asked my
> advise and hence this mail.
>
> Take Manusmrti 3.12 for example:
>
> savarNAgre dvijAtInAM prashaste darakarmaNi |
> kAmatastu pravrttAnAmimAM syuH kramasho varaH ||
>
> The commentator Kulluka Bhatta says this means for
> the Dvijas the first
> marriage should be with someone of the same varna.
> Other marriages for
> the purpose of pleasure can be with one of an
> anuloma jati. (Brahmana male
> - Kshatriya female is anuloma.)
>
> Polygamy was practiced in former times.  Even then,
> Shri Manu says ones
> dharmapatni should be of the same caste.  It is only
> a kamapatni who can
> be otherwise.  However polygamy was never that
> common and public opinion
> gradually  went against it.  The  Manusmrti itself
> warns against in a
> later passage.  In the case of an addtitional
> marriage the rite prescribed
> is called gandharva vivavah which is just
> establishment of agni and
> the seven steps without any further rituals.
> Children of such unions
> would be of the same caste as the father.
>
> If your friend really is interested in doing the
> right thing, he should
> consider not just shastras like the one I quoted but
> shishtachara.  Have
> our Acharyas condoned such behavior?  The answer is
> emphatically no.
>
> But there is also the matter of "love" to consider.
> Most people nowadays
> get their ideas about human relationships from
> Bollywood not the shastras.
> And in a battle between love and duty, Bollywood is
> very clear:  romantic
> love wins everytime.  Those people have to think
> dramatically.  Who is
> going to pay money to watch a woman mend her
> husbands socks or a father
> take his daughter for swimming lessons?  In the real
> world though such
> acts of commitment are more important than a
> Valentines card or running
> through fields in the rain.  In the US, the latest
> statistics are that
> almost 50% of marriages end in divorce.  It is not
> because American people
> do not value the idea of marriage but many of them
> enter it with such
> ridiculously inflated romantic notions.  When the
> sentiment ebbs or turns
> out to be an illusion, there is no foundation so
> only a hollow shell
> remains.  Indians should not be complacent and thin
> that kind of thing
> won't happen to us.  I'm not suggesting a love
> marriage could never work
> or a Dharmic one is always paradise, but
> statistically marriages built on
> principles have a much better chance.  And Dharma
> provides a set of
> principles which will serve one well in all stages
> of life.
>
> --
> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>


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>From ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG Thu Nov 15 00:51:40 2001
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From: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM>
Subject: Re: A dharmic question! (fwd)
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On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, ravi chandrasekhara wrote:

> Dear Jaldhar,
>
> Do the Shastras also accept anuloma vivaha where the
> Kshatriya (or Vaisya) wife of a Brahmin male, to be
> the primary and only wife, as long as she is too from
> a Dvija (kshatriya or vaisya)family ?

In the Manusmrti no.  It would take some research to see if other
smrtikaras differed.

It should be noted that the conduct of Rshis was recognized as being
somewhat anomalous.  In this context you should look at the section of the
Mahabharata where the five Pandavas ask to marry Draupadi.  King Drupada
naturally looks askance at this highly unusual situation and a
conversation ensues with Yudhisthira in which the cases of several Rshis
are mentioned and whether they should be emulated or not is discussed.
(I'm sorry I don't have a copy of the mula Mahabharata handy so I can't
give you the exact reference.)

--
Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>