Kashmiri Shaivism

[Shrinivas Gadkari]

>B: The concept of mukti is from the view point of the Jiva.
>Sadhana is targetted to relieve the Jiva from suffering. The
>whole purpose of creation was fun. Lack of correct knowledge
>makes Jiva suffer, hence sadhana. Everything that I am saying
>are standard statements nothing new. Only stressing the fun
>part of the game.
>
>By not doing anything the suffering of the Jiva will not go
>away.

I guess I am confused now about the position of mukti, and what it is, in
Kashmir Shaivism. If there be a *real* transformation of Shiva into this
world, then what is the guarantee that a liberated jiva will not become
trapped again?

Dreaming occurs in the mind and that is where we negate it once we wake up.
The mind becomes the cars and castles but we know it to be not true on
waking up. Once a jiva obtains mukti, it becomes aware of its real nature
and the universe of objects and subjects then is dismissed as a
superimposition on Brahman. Is it then the position of KS that once the
jiva realizes its Shiva nature, it *knows* the transformation to be a real
state but is not affected by it? Then Jaldhar's point of why Shiva creates
a universe in the first place becomes valid. Why does a perfect being need
to entertain itself?

thanks
ashish

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Namaste Ashish,

I mentioned earlier that no claims are being made that my
understanding represents KS, Advaita or any other school.

Repeating what has been said earlier, Mukti is acquiring
knowledge that would enable the Jiva to destory its suffering.
Implementation of this knowledge is yoga.

Can a Jiva fall again ?
Yes if there is lapse in yoga. There are accounts in the
Puranas to support this view.

Regards
Shrinivas
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> B: The concept of mukti is from the view point of the Jiva.

But this jiva you say is the creator.  Presumably then it has created
ignorance and bondage too.  So why does it need mukti?  Either it can get
it any time it chooses (and that choice is mearly one of nomenclature) or
it can never get it.

jiva as creator has as many problems as Brahman as creator.


> Sadhana is targetted to relieve the Jiva from suffering. The
> whole purpose of creation was fun. Lack of correct knowledge
> makes Jiva suffer, hence sadhana. Everything that I am saying
> are standard statements nothing new. Only stressing the fun
> part of the game.
>

"Fun" as we would understand it requires intent.  That's the sticking
point.

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Namaste Jaldhar,

The Being in the state of Ishvara creates and in the state of Jiva
experiences the creation. Network of attachment belongs to Jiva and
the effect of this is Ishvara creating conditions that makes Jiva
suffer.

Intent implies attachment and that in turn is the seed for more
suffering. So certianly intention is ruled out.

Is it not possible to rejoice without intent ?
Yes it is possible.

Regards
Shrinivas