New member introduction: Steve Wray

Steve Wray steve.wray at PARADISE.NET.NZ
Mon Oct 21 21:59:46 CDT 2002

First of all, I am no physicist. I have, however studied
the many worlds semantics of logic as part of my philosophy
honors year.

Also, my vedanta is rather rusty so I will leave out terms such
as jiva and caitanya which I believe might be appropriate to
this discussion, but which I do not wish to use incorrectly.

So far as I am aware, a small quantum computer has already
been constructed and tested. There are some articles on this

This is also where I read an article which reasoned thus;
One day, a quantum computer will be built which will
perform a computation which would require more processors
than there are atoms in the (known) universe.
At such a time, the question must be asked "Where did these
computations take place?"
The author draws from this, the conclusion that the existence
of quantum computers verifies the "ManyWorlds" interpretation
of quantum mechanics.

The actual means by which information can get from one world
to another is restricted to the very small scale of the quantum
world. I believe that it is known as 'quantum interference'.

What quantum computers allow us to do, is to amplify this
interference into the large-scale world. Thus we can use results
gained from computational work done in these other worlds to help
us make decisions etc in this world.

It seems not implausible that the phenomenon of consciousness
may be due to similar quantum interference; the brain thereby
acting as an amplifier much as a quantum computer does.

I believe that it was Roger Penrose who first suggested that
due to the scale at which activity within cells takes place,
quantum effects may be rather strong. Having studied cell biology,
I believe that this may be the best explaination for certain
phenomena occuring in living cells (Protein construction being
the foremost example in my experience).

If true then personal consciousness would be the result of what
might be described as collaboration between the individual in this
world and their counterparts in those other worlds.

Since there are infinitely many universes and infinitely many
counterparts, the true person would best be seen as the sum
of those infinite personal selves. Put it like this;
We are not (just) flesh-and-blood organisms existing in
time and space.
Rather we are infinite, ageless and eternal beings spanning
the multiverse.

But this is still not the single supreme person posited by
advaita vedanta, I believe another step of reasoning may be
required, which I would like to look into more deeply.
It is this;

The personal self, has counterparts in many of these
other worlds; infinitely many in fact. There may be
worlds in which I have no currently existing counterpart,
and worlds in which my counterpart is barely recognisable
as such.

But consider this; perhaps it is possible to concieve of
a counterpart to myself in some world which would be
indistinguishable from your self in this world.
Could it not be said, if this were true, that even within
this one world, you and I are counterparts?
If so then we would not only be infinite, world spanning
entities, but simply one single entity; one ultimate
person composed of the myriad of individual selves which
inhabit and experience every aspect of every world in the

I believe that this may give the scientific validation
which I mentioned earlier; it should be possible for
the existance of these other worlds to, at some point,
be scientifically verified. And similarly it should be
possible to determine whether the human mind and perhaps
even all life is a product of quantum interference
between worlds (since I believe that the amplification
of quantum interference may be an important factor in
biological activity of all kinds).

If it turns out that the nature of our consciousness
as world-spanning entities is indeed scientifically
verifiable, I believe this will go a long way toward
validating advaita vedanta as a perfectly reasonable
scientific theory.

I know that I am on shakey ground here and that I am
sticking my neck out; its something that I have only
just begun to put together and which I would like
very much to study more deeply.

I hope that my explaination makes sense!

-----Original Message-----
From: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
[mailto:ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG] On Behalf Of Subrahmanian,
Sundararaman V [IT]
Sent: Tuesday, 22 October 2002 08:02
Subject: Re: New member introduction: Steve Wray

Can you explain for the benefit of members the following paragraph a
little more?

Just on the side, the only place I read about quantum computers is in
Michael Crichton's "Timeline".  He admits that all the theories he has
propounded, though being studied by the academia, is in the realm of


The thing which most recently sparked my interest, was the discovery
that the theory of quantum computers opens up a whole field
of scientific validation of Advaita Vedanta etc. in terms of the
many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.
>From ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG Tue Oct 22 00:34:27 2002
Message-Id: <TUE.22.OCT.2002.003427.0400.ADVAITAL at LISTS.ADVAITAVEDANTA.ORG>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:34:27 -0400
Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
From: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM>
Subject: Re: Indra and Vrtra
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210181924190.3515-100000 at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On and on the the two foes battled one sometimes gaining the upper hand
and sometimes the other.  At one point Vrtra struck a mighty blow on the
temple of Airavata, Indras elephant, causing it to collapse and Indra to
fall to the ground.  He waited for his opponent to get up nd rearm
himself, explaining to Indra that he cared not for the results of battle
which are preordained by Vishnu Bhagawan but only for the observance of
Dharma. They continued fighting and slowly Indra began gaining the upper
hand.  With a blow of the Vajra, Vrtras' right arm was cut off.  He
switched to the left arm and kept up the fight.  But soon that also was
cut off.  He continued fighting with his legs. One of his legs was cut off
then the other.  Deprived of its' last support his mighty torso fell to
the ground but as Vrtra fell, he opened his mouth and swallowed Indra up.
Indra began slashing away in the belly of the great Demon at first to no
avail but eventually when Vishnu Bhagawan entered into the Vajra He was
able to win His way out.  Vrtra was at last dead.  At once the waters
which had been swallowed up by Vrtra were released and the three worlds
sprang to life once again.

But Vrtra like his brother Vishwarupa and father Vishwakarma was also a
great sage so the spirit of Brahmahatya began to haunt Indra once again
taking the shape of a hideous old crone who ran after Indra screaming
"Brahmana slayer! Brahmana slayer!"  Indra fled but wherever He turned,
Brahmahaya was there running after him.  Eventually he dove into the lake
Manasarovar on holy Mt. Kailasa hiding in the stem of a lotus.  There He
remained in fear for 1000 years.  (Brahmahatya could not follow Him there
because Kailasa is protected by Shiva Bhagawan.)

In the mean time the Devas appointed the virtuous King Nahusha as the new
Indra which calls for another quick digression.  Although this Nahusha had
been the embodiment of Dharma in his earthly life, over time he became
corrupted by his newfound power.  Soon his arrogance grew  to the point he
bagan demand the Saptarshis carry his palanquin.  When Maharshi Agastya
was struggling with thi burden, he kicked him and said "sarpa sarpa"
("quickly! quickly!" in Sanskrit) at which Agastya Maharshi cursed him to
become a snake (also sarpa in Sanskrit.)

During His 1000 years of exile, the real Indra meditated on the feet of
Shri Hari and finally decided what to do.  He returned to Heaven and
performed the Ashvamedha yajna and by the grace of Shri Yajnanarayana was
freed from the sin of Brahmahatya.

Shukadevaji tells King Parikshita that whomsoever hears this holy story of
the Victory of Indra will be freed from all sins because it sings the
glory of Vishnu Bhagawan, and explains Dharma and Bhakti with the lfestory
of Bhaktas. It brings victory over enemies, fame, wealth, long life and
other blessings to those who listen to it or recite it with faith.

The source for the above story is Bhagavata Mahapurana 6th skandha,
chapters 7-13.  Chapters 14-17 tell of the previous life of Vrtra as a
king called Chitraketu.

Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at>
It's a girl! See the pictures -

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