Dvaita and Sophistry - Part 3(Inherent natures of jivas)

kalyan chakravarthy kalyan_kc at HOTMAIL.COM
Tue Mar 25 10:28:23 CST 2003


>Certainly.  However, the fact remains that being (astitva/sattA in
>Sanskrit) is also the self-same nature of the jIva, proving that it *has*
>a self-same nature (which was your question).

How does it show that this nature is eternally constant?

>It doesn't; for that we need to refer to Bhagavad Gita XVII-2/3 and
>others such.

Same question as above.

>Anytime anyone goes into an asurya-loka (or even a "state where there is
>no sunlight" -- sUryaprakAshahInA -- as Sri Shankara prefers to read it),
>even temporarily, it may be considered a fall; we do not need the `abhi-'
>prefix to tell us that.  The prefix, in order to be meaningful, has to
>convey something beyond what is already obvious.

Not necessary. For there is nothing wrong or meaningless in saying that
people fall into dark worlds. There is also a difference between stating the
obvious and emphasizing(or supporting) what has already been said. There is
no guarentee that sruti avoids the latter. Eg. tat tvam asi.(or atat tvam
asi in your point of view. Infact your reasoning jeopardizes atat tvam asi,
but I dont want to digress into that now.)

There is one more problem with your reasoning. How do you justify your
reading in of the eternal damnation idea?

> > As for this, there is no guarentee that a particular word is used in
> > in always the same sense.
>In saying this, you have actually made a positive assertion concerning
>Vedantic etymology that you needs must justify.

The word atmA.

>That damnation is eternal is also known from other sources, e.g., from
>`mAM aprApyaiva'.

Leaving aside the truth value of your interpretation, are you admitting that
the Isa Upanishad does not indicate eternal damnation?

>If `abhigachchhanti' does not signify eternal transit (a position that
>needs to be backed up with proper analyses), then we still have the
>question of what happens to the poor folk who end up in (temporary?)
>andhaM tamas -- when and under what conditions are they released from it,
>and what is their later course of action?  Since ignorance has been
>indicated to be the cause of entry into such a state, and since andhaM
>tamas is, by its very named nature, a state of black ignorance, it is not
>at all clear how the conditions could arise for someone to escape from it.
>Not having clarified this point, the Upanishad must be considered to have
>left much to desire in its statements.
>Therefore, even if the etymology that is the basis could somehow be fixed,
>there is the further problem of having to address the lacunae that show up
>in the theological superstructure.

1. As you are reading in an idea, the burden of justification lies on you.
2. Combine vidya and avidya to achieve the goal.(comes immediately next)
3. Transition of states is a possibility from day to day experience.

Best Regards

Chat now. Chat this instant. http://messenger.msn.co.in/  Get MSN Messenger

>From  Tue Mar 25 11:54:51 2003
Message-Id: <TUE.25.MAR.2003.115451.0530.>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:54:51 +0530
Reply-To: ambaa-l at yahoogroups.com
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
From: K Anand <carex at VSNL.COM>
Subject: [ambaa-L] Rohith
Comments: cc: ambaa-l at yahoogroups.com
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Dear Learned members,

Can somebody explain the direct and inner meanings and explanation of the name ROHITH as it appears in Sri Rudram as 'Rohithaya sthapathaye'.

Anand K

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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