[Advaita-l] Contradictions between Shankara and his disciples

kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Thu Jan 1 18:21:27 CST 2004

--- Aravind Mohanram <psuaravind at yahoo.com> wrote:

Aravind and Kartik

My original question was intended to find out how Shree
Sacchidanandendra Saraswati,answered in his books after his extensive
research on Shankara and post-Shankara Advaitin.

I must say my own understanding differs slightly from Kartik’s, but
essence is the same.

1. Jn~aani is one who knows ‘I am Brahman’ – since brahma vit brahma eva
bhavati.  – When one recognizes that I am Brahman – automatically one
also knows one is not a doer or never a doer – all adhyaasa is gone
forever.  There is no return back from that state – that is no more
notions that I am a kartaa or I am a bhoktaa, even I am j~naata etc
which are all due to adhyaasa.

2. But the difference – one can still bless the prakRiti to take its
natural action that is required for the situation.  Mayaa adhyaxena
prakRitiH suuyate sa cha raa charam – the prakRiti is being maaya is
just which appears to be true but not really true. 

3. Krishna is not a teacher – as Kartik rightly pointed out but in his
presence the teaching can go on by the prakRiti itself.  Krishna himself
declared – prakRityevaca karmaani kriya maanaani sarvashaH| yaH
pasyatitadaatmaanam akarthaaram sa pasyati|  - All actions are being
done by prakRiti alone and who ever 'sees' this really 'sees' the truth.
 – Hence this statement is true even during aj~naana kaale i.e. even
when one is ignorant, the prakRiti alone does.  Implication is not only
the teacher is not teaching but also student is also not learning
either! – So if it come to that even the sadhana and studentship,
including the realization all are part of the ignorance itself.

4. My question originally pertains to whether j~naani ‘sees’ plurality
and Kartik answer was appropriate to that extent since he does not see
and in fact I should put more emphatically that he in fact never saw
even in ‘aj~naana kaale too’ but at the time he had the notion that he
was the seer.  Now he knows that he was never a seer. 

5. But does the prakRiti ceases to function in projecting the plurality.
 I am not sure Kartik answered that directly since the question was not
put that way but (it is my firm understanding now), plurality should
still manifest since that is  its nature.  Just as Krishna declares –
mayaa tatam idam sarvam jagadavyakta ruupinaa, mastani sarva bhutaani na
chaaham tashu avastitaH – na ca mastaani bhuustaani, pasyame yoga
iswaram...| I pervade this entire universe in a unmanifested form, All
being are in me but I am not in them- but again they are not in me
either since they are projection of the prakRiti- look at my glory. 
Plurality can be ‘seen’ – in the sense of projection of or by prakRiti
itself as His Glory.  Krishna can preside the operation of the local
body, mind and equipment too in response to Arjuna’s questions. Hence I
will answer the question – not that ‘he’ really ‘sees’ the plurality –
But that does not mean plurality disappears – it can be considered as

6. So like a cat on the wall – Does j~naani sees the plurality – no
since there is no more ‘ego’ there to really say that he ‘sees’ the
plurality.  So the teaching can go on not necessarily from individual
Arjuna’s point but it is the nature response by local equipment of
Krishna’s body activated by the universal soul.  It is a natural
response to the stimulus. So is seeing and other activities of Krishna
too – when he declares that he does not have to do any thing in three
worlds but if he does not do, others follow a wrong example, therefore
he 'does'! 

So Does the plurality not exist – no- it exists since that is the play
of prakRiti.  Does the prakRiti play by itself – no prakRiti is jaDam
and cannot play by itself – for play conscious entity is required.  So
what is the answer then– back to KrishNa’s statement – mayaa adhyaxena
prakRiti ...– the substantive of prakRiti is Krishna himself as the
total self.  Hence 

yo maam pasyati sarvatra sarvancha mahi pasyati.
Sarva bhuutastamaatmaanam sarva bhutaanicha aatmani.

Mayya manefist as 'parameswara shakti'.  

I want to thank Kartik and Arvind too for discussions and I will stop my
discussion on this topic with this.  Actually want I wanted to learn
from Kartik is where exactly SSS thinks post Shankara differed from
Shankara in terms of in the advaita doctrine; naturally after his
completion of his study of the works of SSS. 

Happy new year to every body. Another 'apparent year really (apparently)

God bless all.

Hari OM!

What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda.

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