[Advaita-l] Contradictions between Shankara and his disciples

Aravind Mohanram psuaravind at yahoo.com
Fri Jan 2 12:21:59 CST 2004

This will be my last posting in this thread, as I've spent way too much
time in typing this email, and not interested in pursuing this
discussion any further. The discussion has changed considerably from
the subject header, but I'm not sure what the subject line can be
changed to. 

>>I agree. I thought my questions were related to what Sri Sadananda had raised. It was you who brought in ABB and ISKCON. 

Your postings indicate that you are fairly new to advaita VedAnta, and
are even ignorant of the philosophy of ISKCON (NB: I speak specifically
of the philosophy, not of the attitude of so-called 'neophytes'). 

>> I'm relatively new to AV, but certainly not ignorant of ISKCON's philosophy, although, I'm still trying to learn. If you want to discuss ISKCON's philosophy in an objective manner, then you are welcome to email me separately. I'm also interested to know on what basis you say that I'm ingorant of ISKCON's philosophy (ofcourse, outside this forum). 

I thought I made myself clear, but somehow you didn't get my drift. I
have NOTHING personal against ISKCON, but this is NOT the forum in
which to discuss ANYTHING other than advaita VedAnta. This forum is
simply NOT INTENDED for something other than learning about the
Shankaran tradition. This list is intended for the sole purpose of
learning WITH REVERENCE the doctrine that is taught by the various
Shankara Maths. 

>> As I said, I'll be happy to know if you can show clearly that I violated the objectives of this forum. I think I clearly understand the objectives of this forum. 

If you wish to raise objections in the spirit of enquiry, please take
care first to read the countless objections that have been answered by
Shankara, Sureshvara, Padmapada, etc. and then raise an appropriate
objection that has not been answered before. The reason is that
virtually ALL of the objections that you've raised have been answered
countless times before in print as well in this list, and it becomes
very tiring to answer them all over again. 

>> Point taken. Thanks.

The reason(s) I feel you have some grounding in ISKCON ideology: 
(1) A past posting in which you claimed something about the
Hare-Krishna Mahamantra being the way for the Kali Yuga. 
(2) Your reference to Gita verse 2.12, and the terminilogy of
"individuality being eternal". 
(3) Your arguments on advaita VedAnta parallel ISKCON's own. 
(4) In the last posting, you have spoken of "Devotional Service to the
Lord", typical ISKCON ideology. (I know you mentioned this after I
pointed out the list's disinterest towards ISKCON, but I thought I
should mention it).

>> Rather, than speculating so much, you could have directly asked me. Yes, I do practice Krishna consciousness. If that is a crime and disqualification to be on this forum, let me know, I'll be happy to unsubscribe. 

Visit http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/avhp/ and study the entire
website. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask the list.
Study the series on "advaita siddhi" by Anand Hudli in this list. You
should be able to search for it at

>> Thanks. 

Firstly, this does not change the fact that: "an entity in a certain
level of reality can cause a person to come out of that level of

I agree that it does not change what you have said. My point is this: the presence of an illusory tiger presupposes the existence of a real tiger - so, in the same way, I'm interested to know what is the origin of this illusion - you maybe to happy to accept this analogy of the tiger, because it agrees with your pre-conceived notions, whereas it's not completely satisfying to me. But, as you have suggested I'll try to read the reasoning of Sankara and his followers.

Secondly, if you're unhappy with "tiger", change it to
"unicorn-vampire-crossed-with-alien-monster" that the man has not come
across in his real life. 

Thanks for the joke!! 

FYI: the Gita verse 7.18 is best translated as "I consider the GYAnI as
verily myself...". If you're not sure how this is related to the topic
of jIvanmukti, I wonder if you know what jIvanmukti is. You REALLY NEED
to begin studying advaita VedAnta seriously if you wish to be taken
seriously in this list, otherwise your objections will be quickly
deleted without anyone reading past the first sentence. 

>> Same holds true, if you wish to be taken seriously on achintyabhedaabheda. Come and discuss on a proper forum like "achintya". 

When Krishna says, "I consider the Gyani as Myself", it can also be understood that the Gyani is very dear to Krishna and He considers Him non-different from Him. I just hope that you are atleast open to different meanings a verse can have. 



P.S: - I used CAPS for emphasis. 

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