[Advaita-l] RE: sadyomukti and jIvanmukti

[Ramesh Badisa]

Dear respected members,
Namaste.

>I do not see a necessary contradiction between 2 and 3, for they do not 
>apply to the same person at the same time. It is a question of 
>adhikAra-bheda.

Badisa: Obviously, both 2 and 3 cannot be applied to the same person, as was 
also indicated earlier. But, here we are looking two situations in two 
different sadhakas, and in that regard, it was clear that 2 is applied for 
one sadhaka and 3 for other sadhaka. It was believed that the idea ‘instant’ 
might have got from one of great masters of recent times, sri Ramana 
Maharshi.  If it is correct, then, in this case also, the rise of 
self-knowledge is not instant. In his previous life, he died before the rise 
of this knowledge, and thus, in the next life, he got this self-knowledge 
instantly.  Thus, even though this self-knowledge ‘appears’ to be instant to 
others in this case also, but in reality, it started from his previous life 
itself. If you do not believe in this, I request to refer to the Divine Life 
Society newsletters, for the month of May 04, where similar type of views 
have been expressed.  Based on this piece of information I would say that 
even though, the self-realization in some cases appears to be instant, it is 
only at the level of appearances, but in reality, it started much before 
that. On the other hand, if this self-knowledge in particular life is taken 
as instant, then it is ok, but it needs to be remembered that in reality, it 
started much before that. When kundalini rises, it won’t reach to sahasra 
region of the head immediately, as it encounters many blocks on its path. 
Rising of kundalini itself takes lot of time and sadhana, and thereafter to 
remove the blocks also takes lot of sadhana and time. In the previous 
posting in response to my earlier reply, it was maintained that sadhyo mukti 
is applicable to those sadhakas who get this self-knowledge instantly. But, 
this may not be the case. Because, based on Swami Premanandaji Maharaj 
homage page, it is clear that sadhyo mukti is applicable only after death, 
not before that.

It all depends on whether you view mukti as the
>achievement of a new reality or as the revelation of pre-existing reality. 
>In advaita, it is seen as the latter.

Badisa: Absolute salvation is different from self-realization. In the above 
posting, if it is implied that self-realization is nothing but the absolute 
state of mukti, then my question is how about the liberated souls at Brahma 
Lok (BL)? Can the above same logic be extrapolated to these liberated souls 
too?

As per Sampadyavirbhadhikaranam for Brahma Sutras 1-3 of 4.4, the liberated 
soul does not acquire anything new but only manifests its essential or true 
nature. Right? The fact that this soul at Brahma Lok manifests its own 
nature indicates that it has already got the final liberation teaching by 
Lord Brahma, and that this soul now realized its divine nature by meditation 
while at Brahma Lok. Right? Now, can we say that the liberated soul in the 
question has already achieved absolute salvation, based on its 
self-realization?  No. Why? Because, if we say that these souls are in 
absolute salvation state, then why the sutra 4.3.10 would have to repeat it 
again to say that at pralaya, the liberated souls, along with Lord Brahma 
will attain salvation. The fact the assurance that they would get salvation 
at pralaya indicates that the liberated souls at Brahma Lok, even on the 
face of realization that they are divine, haven’t yet got the absolute 
salvation. Thus, the conclusion is that manifesting of the soul’s own nature 
(self-knowledge) is not equal to achieving of absolute salvation. I welcome 
your comments. The same is applicable to jeevan mukta’s case also as 
mentioned below:

In Chh. Up. 8.12.3, it is said that, “Now this serene and happy being, after 
having risen out of this body and having attained the highest light, 
manifests itself by its own nature”. We need to understand some questions 
here. Who is this serene being? It is the soul of a jeevan mukta in this 
case (as the soul is said to be attaining the divine after physical death of 
the body). Right? Why is it serene (pure)? The soul is now out of all karma 
bandha (prarabdha karma, PK). Before the death of physical body of this 
jeevan mukta also, the soul is pure, but it is still in bandha (One may say 
here that PK is only for physical body. That is right. But on the basis of 
this argument, we cannot say that there is no more connection exists between 
the physical body of jeevan mukta and his soul. If the argument that there 
is no connection between the body and soul is valid then, the physical body 
should die immediately after self-realization, and the soul should become 
free immediately, as it is not concerned with the PK of the body. Right? But 
this is not happening in reality. Why it does not happen this way? Because, 
in the absence of soul, the lone physical body, which is now dead, cannot 
face PK, meaning that soul needs to present in the body till the end of PK. 
Right? This is a type of bandha to the soul). Why is this soul happy now? It 
is the nature of soul to be happy.  Right? Where is it rising from? The soul 
is rising from the physical body after its death. Right? When did this soul 
attain the highest light (divine)? After the death of physical body. Right? 
Now, as per your understanding if self-realization by jeevan mukta itself is 
the state of absolute salvation, then why the above soul of a jeevan mukta 
will have to attain the highest light (divine) again for merging?  As per 
your understanding, this soul after achieving self-knowledge while living, 
is already in the state of absolute salvation. Also, how do we explain and 
apply 6.5 quote of Prasna Upanishad to jeevan mukta state of absolute 
salvation?

Thus, based on the above, it is clear that the state of liberated souls at 
BL or jeevan mukta is not an absolute salvation state. It is only the state 
of self-realization, which paves way for absolute salvation in future, 
meaning that self-realization is different from absolute salvation, where 
there is no limitation for anything.

Namaste
Babu
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