[Advaita-l] RE: Advaita-l Digest, Vol 11, Issue 20

[U.K Anumula]

The basic principle of advaita is non-duality, in other words discrimination 
between man and man would be inconsistent with a true belief in advaita.  As 
a consequence, a true advaitin would eschew caste distinctions, 
untouchability and pride in one's own being a 'brahmin'.   This is stated 
not only as an egalitarian principle of societal harmony, but also as a 
principle inherent in the philosophy of advaita.

Secondly, advaita is not inconsistent with the practice of 'bhakti'.  Bhakti 
is a matter of faith whereas advaita is a matter of higher understanding of 
philosophy.  Therefore to practise advaita, apart from intense reasoning of 
one's inner self and behaviour, practice of bhakti is necessary.  Sankara's 
Bhaja Govindam points to this aspect of practical advaita.

A person indulging in self-glorification aboput his being a brahmin or 
smartha cannot be a true advaitin.


>From: advaita-l-request at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Reply-To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Subject: Advaita-l Digest, Vol 11, Issue 20
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:00:15 -0500 (EST)
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: How to practice advaita? (Srikrishna Ghadiyaram)
>    2. Re: Swami Vivekananda on Shankara (Jaldhar H. Vyas)
>    3. Re: The liberated soul... (Jaldhar H. Vyas)
>    4. CHANDI HOMA (fwd) (Jaldhar H. Vyas)
>    5. Re: Religion that I am born into (Srikrishna Ghadiyaram)
>    6. bhU sUktam and nILA suktam (Srikrishna Ghadiyaram)
>    7. [ADMIN] New member introduction: Darshan Pawargi
>       (Vidyasankar Sundaresan)
>    8. Re: Advaita and Narakam (Raghavendra N Kalyan)
>    9. Re: How to get an hindu name? (Jaldhar H. Vyas)
>   10. Fate Vs Free Will - the most debated subject (latha vidya)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:00:53 -0800 (PST)
>From: Srikrishna Ghadiyaram <srikrishna_ghadiyaram at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] How to practice advaita?
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID: <20040319170053.72483.qmail at web40802.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>hariH Om !!
>
>My search has lead me to Sri Ramesh Balsekar. I find
>that he is the only teacher who teaches intensely
>practical way of living fully in this world with the
>knowledge of Advaita. First of all one should be clear
>what is advaita other than this jugglery of words. Ask
>yourself, what am I going to get out of this advaita
>knowledge. What does a jnani get out of this advaitic
>knowledge, how does his/her life change after this
>realization. Then you will automatically understand
>how to 'practice' advaita.
>
>I would recommend, urge you to read "Sin and Guilt:
>Monstrocity of Mind" by Sri Ramesh Balsekar. After
>that you will understand what is all this advaita. If
>I were to recommend one book one should read, it is
>this book.
>
>Om Namo Narayanaya !!
>
>Srikrishna
>
>--- Venkat Shrinivas <vsh at verizon.net> wrote:
> > I am interested in learning about "how to practice
> > advaita philosophy" on a
> > day to day basis in the present day. Does it mean
> > practicing yoga asanas,
> > meditation, and moderation in diet, exercise and
> > sleep? Does it mean
> > constant contemplation and/or reflection on the
> > question "who am I"? Does it
> > mean always alert, without desires and day dreams,
> > living in the present
> > moment, being detached...?
> >
> > Could the members of the list elaborate on what
> > "practice" means for them,
> > and what is their concern about Ramakrishna ashram
> > practice(s) - which I am
> > not familiar with.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Venkat Shrinivas
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> > >
> > > My advice would be to go to the Harekrishna temple
> > but ignore anything
> > > they say about philosophy and to go to the
> > Ramakrishna ashram and ignore
> > > anything they say about practice.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > want to unsubscribe or change your options? See:
> >
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:02:22 -0500 (EST)
>From: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Swami Vivekananda on Shankara
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID:
>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0403191144280.2629 at diku.intranet.braincell.com>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, S Jayanarayanan wrote:
>
> > --- S Jayanarayanan <sjayana at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > The following website gives a quote from Vivekananda about Shankara:
> > >
> > > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15042001/Art06.htm
> > >
> > > "About the activities of Sankaracharya, even Vivekananda had
> > > observed:
> > > 'And, such was the heart of Sankara that he burnt to death lots of
> > > Buddhist monks by defeating them in argument. What can you call such
> > > action on Sankara's part except fanaticism.' (Complete works of Swami
> > > Vivekananda, Vol. III, p. 118, Calcutta, 1997)."
> > >
> >
> > I discovered that the quote is incorrect and deliberately misleading.
> > Even the reference is false,
>
>I'm not surprised.  every single thing in that article was either a lie or
>half-truth.  This whole episode should serve as a warning that we need to
>learn more about history ourselves.  Just because someone has "Professor"
>in front of their names doesn't mean they necessarily know what they are
>talking about!
>
>Btw, even with this proviso, the story is not historically accurate.
>Buddhism was in decline in India long before Shankaracharya.
>
>
>vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy wrote:
>
> > In fact the biggest publicists of the vedic precepts
> > are non-Indians (and hence non-brahimins) like Max
> > Muller and Griffith etc... :)
>
>Legitimate scholars like these may say things that are flattering to us or
>they may not.  We should learn what we can from them but be aware their
>agenda is different from ours so they should not be relied upon for the
>purposes of sadhana.
>
>
>--
>Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>It's a girl! See the pictures - http://www.braincells.com/shailaja/
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:29:59 -0500 (EST)
>From: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] The liberated soul...
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID:
>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0403191229450.32537 at jyoti.intranet.braincells.com>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Kiran B R wrote:
>
> > > how can he see the duality to come back from where
> > > to where...how can he see the absence of himself
> > > anywhere??
> >
> > If he cannot, who can?
> >
>
>There is one case where the mukta comes back as it were and it is
>explained in brahmasutra 3.3.32 yAvadadhikAramavasthitirAdhikArikANAM
>"When there is an office, there is embodiment for the officers for its
>duration"
>
>Dirghatamasa or Apantaratamasa Gautama was the Rshi Of the Ishopanishad.
>But in the Mahabharata it says he was reborn as Krishna Dvaipayana aka
>Veda Vyasa.  But if he was a jnani why would he return?  This sutra
>explains that certain souls who have a divine task that lasts longer
>than a lifetime may take birth again in order to fulfill it.  In this case
>it was to divide and arrange the Vedas and to teach the vedanta shastra.
>It is the same as with prarabdha karma.  Acheiving jnana does not cancel
>out existing karma but from then on, no more accrues and when the last of
>it burned, the jnani becomes eternally free.
>
>
>--
>Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>It's a girl! See the pictures - http://www.braincells.com/shailaja/
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:45:07 -0500 (EST)
>From: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>Subject: [Advaita-l] CHANDI HOMA (fwd)
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Cc: bemlgr <bemlgr at vsnl.com>
>Message-ID:
>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0403191243030.2629 at diku.intranet.braincell.com>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>If anyone can help with this question please respond cc'ing the poster as
>he is not a member of the list.
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: bemlgr <bemlgr at vsnl.com>
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:07:42 +0530
>Subject: CHANDI HOMA
>
>Sir,
>
>Please for the book list if any available on "chandi homa" in kannada /
>english / sanskrit
>
>
>veda
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:26:46 -0800 (PST)
>From: Srikrishna Ghadiyaram <srikrishna_ghadiyaram at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Religion that I am born into
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID: <20040319182646.64566.qmail at web40811.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>hariH Om !!
>
>--- Raghavendra Hebbalalu <hs_raghavendra at yahoo.com>
>
> > > If one's 'past deeds' were so much binding and
> > > guiding
> > > one, then one should have so chosen to 'stick' to
> > > religion of birth all the time. But, it is not the
> > > case.
> > >
> > > Religion is 'man made'. No question of eligibility
> > > or
> > > otherwise.
> >
> > I would disagree here. Eligibility is there in the
> > form of the required mental preparation, be it in
> > this
> > janma or the previous ones. But, please note that I
> > am
> > not implying that all brAhmaNas in this birth have
> > that eligibility.
>
>Do you mean to say that some are born as Brahmanas
>though they are not eligible ? Or for what these
>'some' Brahmanas are not eligible ?
>
>How can you call one a brahmana who does not study
>sruti, who does not do charity, who resorts to himsa,
>or who is greedy of this worldly prosperity. (I am one
>such). I understand these are the basic injunctions
>for being a brahmana.
>
> > Just as SanyAsa is not given to
> > all
> > and sundry who request for it, conversion to another
> > religion is not recommended for everybody. This is a
> > very private matter between the person and the
> > person's Guru.
> >
>
>How and when does one become a Guru  for some one ?
>What is the starting point. So, do you mean to say
>that a Guru can have sishyas of other religions ?
>
> > The external emblems of a religion may be man-made.
> > The Vedas/Vedic Truths are apauruSheya and hence the
> > Dharma stemming from it is apauruSheya (not
> > man-made).
> >
> >
>
>If Vedas are 'apaurusheya' then 'Quron' also can be
>'apaurusheya', as it is claimed by Muslims.
>
>Current Religion is a popular vehicle to investigate
>into 'Truth'.
>
>Religion is nothing but symbols and rituals, whose
>purpose can be debated. (A advaita sannyasi even gives
>up the 'bottu' of any kind.) Remove all those and then
>define 'Religion'. What is left ??
>
>A way of life dealing with how to behave in society
>man with man, being with being , is all that is left.
>The remaining portion is man with God. The symbols and
>rituals associated with the second part is what is
>popularly known religion. The first part is now in the
>domain of social culture.
>
>If I were having 'muslim' parents, I would have been
>branded a muslim. I would be eating 'meat', more
>likely.
>
>But, for reasons unknown to me, and any way some one
>has to be born to my present parents, I am here now.
>It could be some other body. Being brought up in
>certain way, I strongly identify with one set of
>ideals and defend them as great or only truth.
>
>There is no liberation to people in either camp, as
>long as they are identified with one and discriminate
>the other.
>
>The wise discriminate and choose a right way of
>living. This does not mean that I will start doing and
>behaving like a muslim or eat meat. My body and mind
>are not conditioned to that, as of now.
>
>The philosophic enquiry is entirely different. One can
>question the 'TRUTH' and arrive at the solution. All
>the other techinques in particular religions are
>directed to knowing that 'TRUTH'.
>
>There is no religion in 'shatka sampatti'. Suresvara
>whom we revere now so much is said to be a Karma
>Meemamsaka in the beginning, until Sankara met him.
>
>People who can not understand true advaita and/or want
>to propagate their way of understanding of 'advaita'
>alone have such strong views on conversion.
>
>Yes, I too agree that 'forced conversion' is against
>the current democratic thought. Will of God in such
>situations can not be easily understood, though it is
>obviously because of 'God's Will'. Otherwise, I will
>be having 'my will' stronger than 'god's will' which
>is ridiculous. How can there be my will separate from
>God's will. The advaita vedanta is shouting so much
>that there is no 'I' separate from Him. As long as one
>is not clear of this basic principle, all suggestions
>will put one in an unescapable maze.
>
>I find this following  beautiful sentence in the
>chapter titled, "Creation as Explained in the Tantra"
>by J. G. Woodroffe, page 131, in the book 'Studies in
>the Tantra, published by Ramakrishna Mission.
>
>"What is the intrinsic value of a philosophy which
>emanates from a mind which is so ignorant as to be
>superstitious ?"
>
>Om Namo Narayanaya !!
>
>Srikrishna
>
>
>__________________________________
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:05:23 -0800 (PST)
>From: Srikrishna Ghadiyaram <srikrishna_ghadiyaram at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [Advaita-l] bhU sUktam and nILA suktam
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID: <20040319190523.12283.qmail at web40802.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>hariH Om !!
>
>Would some one direct me to resources which give
>translation and commentary on bhU sUktam and nILA
>sUktam. Please give pointers to any books in English
>or Telugu which cover this subject.
>
>Would also highly appreciate if the sanskrit and vedic
>scholars of this list can provide some translation on
>this list, if there are no external resources.
>
>Om Namo Narayanaya !!
>
>Srikrishna
>
>
>
>__________________________________
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:39:08 -0800
>From: "Vidyasankar Sundaresan" <svidyasankar at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [Advaita-l] [ADMIN] New member introduction: Darshan Pawargi
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Message-ID: <BAY13-F61QFsDgrArOY00005138 at hotmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>
>I am a post graduate engg in Mechanical.
>My interest in Advaita philosophy started after i read few articles on Shri
>Adi Shankaracharya and also a book my Shri Paramahansa Yogananda.
>
>I would like to read comments and discussion on advaita phil, going on in
>this group. If i like the group i would continue or i will myself come out
>of the group. Giving my introduction i would also like to know others in
>the group.
>
>Regards
>Darshan
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans 
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>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:27:48 +0000 (GMT)
>From: Raghavendra N Kalyan <kalyan7429 at yahoo.co.uk>
>Subject: [Advaita-l] Re: Advaita and Narakam
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Message-ID: <20040319202748.40830.qmail at web25101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Namaste SrI Jayanarayanan-ji
>
> >If I remember right, the description in VishhNu PurANa of the various
> >hells starting with raurava, ends with, "Heaven and hell are but states
> >of the mind" - thereby implying that svarga and naraka are subjective
> >and not objective worlds. If someone has the VP with him, he may be
> >able to verify this.
>
>You are right. I referred to the English translation of Vishnu Purana (in 
>five volumes) by H H Wilson. The reference is in Volume 2 of the 
>translation.
>
>Vishnu Purana, Book 2, Chapter 6.  Here go the relevant portions -
>
>"Heaven (svarga) is that which delights the mind; Hell (naraka) is that 
>which gives it pain. Hence vice is called hell and virtue is called 
>heaven."
>
>Some sentences later, it also says -
>
>"Pleasure, pain are merely definitions of the various states of mind."
>
>All these come AFTER the description of the various hells. Indeed, we 
>advaitins are right about the interpretations of svarga and naraka.
>
>
>Regards
>Raghavendra
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>   Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! 
>Download Messenger Now
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:46:33 -0500 (EST)
>From: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] How to get an hindu name?
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID:
>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0403191620220.3367 at diku.intranet.braincell.com>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, rohit ubhayaker wrote:
>
> > Just because a book doesn't match to the "intellectual level"  of a
> > person , it doesn't become outdated or useless.
> >
>
>Again this is not about intellectual or spiritual level or anything of the
>sort.  The book is simply chockful of errors.
>
> > Rather even the smaller version of the book Purusha Sookta & Naaraayana
> > Sookta is very useful for aspirants at beginners level .
> >
>
>If they are at the beginners level they shouldn't be dabbling in such
>matters anyway.  Do you give a child learning to count a calculus book?
>
> > The efforts of well meaning saadhakas like those at Shri Raamakrishna
> > Matha should be appreciated , especially in the context of modern Hindu
> > society , where most Hindus are ignorant of the various hymns leave
> > alone their meaning.
>
>The point is after wasting Rs 5. the reader will STILL be ignorant of the
>hymns leave alone their meaning.  If after being given inappropriate
>textbooks your child fails to understand simple addition and subtraction,
>would you excuse the maths teacher with "oh but he meant well?" No, when a
>student fails to learn, the teacher is to blame.
>
>"Modern Hindu society" demands excellence in its technology, and food, and
>clothing, and other material goods.  Why is religion the only area where
>shoddiness is tolerable?  That the Ramakrishna Matha produces many
>excellent translations (which I don't deny) has no bearing on the fact
>that this one is really bad.
>
>Though it has made great strides in many areas, Indian society is still
>intellectually backward in many ways.  We see the dire effects of it in
>that article from a Muslim newspaper that was linked to.  But if we don't
>care for accuracy about Dharma ourselves, what right do we have to
>complain if our enemies don't care either?
>
>--
>Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>It's a girl! See the pictures - http://www.braincells.com/shailaja/
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 05:33:19 +0000 (GMT)
>From: latha vidya <lathavidya at yahoo.co.in>
>Subject: [Advaita-l] Fate Vs Free Will - the most debated subject
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Message-ID: <20040320053319.67874.qmail at web8004.mail.in.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>Hari Om,
>
>Namaste.
>
>There is always so much heated debate going on about Free-will Vs Fate (or 
>God’ Will).
>
>Previous Sringeri Acharya Sri Sri Chandrashekhara Bharathi Swamiji explains 
>this very well:
>
>  What we call ‘Fate’ (or adrishta= that which can not be seen) is nothing 
>but the result of the action that we have committed in the past with our 
>own ‘Freewill’ then. Each action of ours is like a seed sown which when 
>grows into a tree gives us the fruits sometime in the future. (The duration 
>required for the fructification of each action differs – it may be 
>immediate or it may take many births!) If the seed was of a virtuous 
>action, it bears the fruit of happiness. If the seed was of non-virtuous 
>action it bears the fruit of sorrow for us. Either way, we had the freewill 
>to act and choose the kind of fruit it is bearing now.
>
>  Whenever I say that ‘Fate’ is acting in the form of an obstacle in my 
>path of achieving the desired result, I need to understand that it is the 
>result of my own misdeed committed in the past. To uproot that ‘Fate’ I now 
>need to work harder, even more vigorously to nullify the force of that 
>obstacle. Once the current forceful action can nullify the forceful 
>obstacle resulting from the past deed, we can clear the hurdle and 
>progress.
>
>  Acharya gives an analogy of a hammer and nail:
>
>When a certain nail driven in the past deep into the wall is posing me a 
>problem to drive it out of the wall now, I should not lose my enthusiasm 
>and abandon my attempt saying that Fate is more powerful than me and hence 
>I am not succeeding in my present task. Instead if I can understand that it 
>was my own forceful hammering of the nail in the past which had made it get 
>deeply embedded inside the wall, I now need to use a force which is all the 
>more powerful to pull the nail out of the wall !
>
>Any undesirable result of the Prarabhda Karma (Fate or God’s Will) can now 
>be annihilated and overcome by countering it with an exceedingly powerful 
>present deed that is well within my ‘Free Will’!
>
>Hence Fate and Free Will are both Free Will only which differ just in Time 
>perspective.
>
>Namaste,
>
>Latha Vidyaranya
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! India Insurance Special:  Policies, services, tools and more. Click 
>here.
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>------------------------------
>
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>
>End of Advaita-l Digest, Vol 11, Issue 20
>*****************************************

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