[Advaita-l] Re: Advaita-l Digest, Vol 28, Issue 5

[hemang Chamakuzhi Subramanian]

Can someone say where in the Vedas, Upanishads, Samkhyas, UpaVedas, Puranas, Mahabharatha, Ramayana, Yoga-Vasistha, Tripura Rahasya, is it said the following
">have to cast away their yagnopaveethas even if they were brahmins by
>birth.Caste of a person went by his birth."


Is there any discussion in today's world about who are the "Brahmins"?         

    Do these concepts hold, or are we still fighting on some ancient concepts of castes..of which our country may have a few million....

  If we go by the defenition from the "Bhagavad Gita" of Varnashrama, All the worlds software engineers or hi-tech workers are Shudras. The only defenition of a Brahmin that I've seen in all the epics is from the Mahabharatha where the Yaksha asks Dharmaraja "What are the characterstics of a Brahmin?"

One more doubt "Is it necessary to wear the Yagnopaveetam before chanting the Rudram or chamakam?".  






>----- Original Message -----
> From: U.K Anumula <anumula at hotmail.com>
>To: <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:26 PM
>Subject: [Advaita-l] Yagnyopaveetam
>
>
> > What is the significance of "yagnyopaveetam (sacred thread)?  Why is it
>worn
> > by some castes and not by others? Is there any significance to the number
>of
> > threads a 'brahmachari' can wear as contrasted with the number worn by
> > married persons?  Is there a uniform code for wearing the yagyopaveetam
>for
> > all Hindus?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> >
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:40:39 +0530
> From: Krishnan Sundaresan <krish.sundaresan at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Yagnyopaveetam
>To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>Message-ID: <9ed1436c050806011071c60b99 at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Here is a link containing "rules" from manusmriti concerning the yagnopaveetham
>http://www.hinduism.co.za/sacred1.htm
>
>A brahmachari or the bachelor (also, a learner) wears a single sacred
>thread. The householder or the married person wears two. A person who
>is married and has lost one or both of his parents wears three.
>
>-Krishnan
>
>
>On 8/6/05, Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, U.K Anumula wrote:
> >
> > > What is the significance of "yagnyopaveetam (sacred thread)?
> >
> > yajna + upavita.  Yajna is a sacrifice or Vedic karma in general.  Upavita
> > means it is worn draped over the left shoulder.  This is for Deva karya.
> > For Pitr karya it is worn prachinavit (over the right shoulder.)
> >
> > It is the triple thread worn by a person who has undergone the
> > symbolic rebirth of upanayana samskara and is dvija (twice-born) qualified to
> > perform Vedic karma.
> >
> > >  Why is it worn
> > > by some castes and not by others?
> >
> > Because only Brahmanas, Kshatriyas, and Vaishyas and furthermore only
> > the boys among them have the adhikara to perform Upanayana samskara.  And
> > for the most part Kshatriyas and Vaishyas have abandoned the practice or
> > only wear it perfunctorily.  (See Gandhiji -- a Gujarati Vaishyas --
> > autobiography for one example.)  So it is basically only Brahmanas who
> > wear it.
> >
> > Furthermore in the Advaita tradition, sannyasis even if they have the
> > right, do not wear yajnopavit because as I said it is a symbol of karma.
> > But in e.g. Vaishnava traditions which believe in jnana-karma samuccaya,
> > even the sannyasis wear it.
> >
> > > Is there any significance to the number of
> > > threads a 'brahmachari' can wear as contrasted with the number worn by
> > > married persons?
> >
> > A married man wears two yajnopavits one for himself and one on his wifes
> > behalf.  It is the same as if any ordinary person hired a purohit to
> > perform some puja for them.  The yajamana has to go through a priest as he
> > cannot actually perform the ritual himself but he gets the "credit"
> > (punya) not the priest.  In the same way women are equally capable of
> > performing karma and earn punya but they have no right to upanayana so
> > they go through their husbands.
> >
> > >  Is there a uniform code for wearing the yagyopaveetam for
> > > all Hindus?
> > >
> >
> > No the exact details will depend on the grhya sutra of the Vedic Shakha
> > the person belongs to.  But its pretty similiar for all.
> >
> > --
> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
>
>
>--
>Krishnan Sundaresan, http://www.msu.edu/~sundare2
>Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI 48823, USA.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Excuse me for butting in, but I'm interrupt-driven...
>
>
>--
>Krishnan Sundaresan, http://www.msu.edu/~sundare2
>Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI 48823, USA.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Excuse me for butting in, but I'm interrupt-driven...
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 22:09:40 +0530
> From: "anantharaman" <anantharaman at touchtelindia.net>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Yagnyopaveetam
>To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
> 	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Message-ID: <001401c59aa5$711f86a0$6cd2fea9 at abc>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Dear Vyasji
>
>Yours answers are most enlightening and to the point.  May God bless you.
>
>Anantharaman
>----- Original Message -----
> From: Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
><advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 9:12 AM
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Yagnyopaveetam
>
>
> > On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, U.K Anumula wrote:
> >
> > > What is the significance of "yagnyopaveetam (sacred thread)?
> >
> > yajna + upavita.  Yajna is a sacrifice or Vedic karma in general.  Upavita
> > means it is worn draped over the left shoulder.  This is for Deva karya.
> > For Pitr karya it is worn prachinavit (over the right shoulder.)
> >
> > It is the triple thread worn by a person who has undergone the
> > symbolic rebirth of upanayana samskara and is dvija (twice-born) qualified
>to
> > perform Vedic karma.
> >
> > >  Why is it worn
> > > by some castes and not by others?
> >
> > Because only Brahmanas, Kshatriyas, and Vaishyas and furthermore only
> > the boys among them have the adhikara to perform Upanayana samskara.  And
> > for the most part Kshatriyas and Vaishyas have abandoned the practice or
> > only wear it perfunctorily.  (See Gandhiji -- a Gujarati Vaishyas --
> > autobiography for one example.)  So it is basically only Brahmanas who
> > wear it.
> >
> > Furthermore in the Advaita tradition, sannyasis even if they have the
> > right, do not wear yajnopavit because as I said it is a symbol of karma.
> > But in e.g. Vaishnava traditions which believe in jnana-karma samuccaya,
> > even the sannyasis wear it.
> >
> > > Is there any significance to the number of
> > > threads a 'brahmachari' can wear as contrasted with the number worn by
> > > married persons?
> >
> > A married man wears two yajnopavits one for himself and one on his wifes
> > behalf.  It is the same as if any ordinary person hired a purohit to
> > perform some puja for them.  The yajamana has to go through a priest as he
> > cannot actually perform the ritual himself but he gets the "credit"
> > (punya) not the priest.  In the same way women are equally capable of
> > performing karma and earn punya but they have no right to upanayana so
> > they go through their husbands.
> >
> > >  Is there a uniform code for wearing the yagyopaveetam for
> > > all Hindus?
> > >
> >
> > No the exact details will depend on the grhya sutra of the Vedic Shakha
> > the person belongs to.  But its pretty similiar for all.
> >
> > --
> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>End of Advaita-l Digest, Vol 28, Issue 5
>****************************************