[Advaita-l] Re: Moksha (Badisa)

[bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com]

praNAms Sri Ramesh Badisa Prabhuji
Hare Krishna

Kindly bear with my intrusion.

RB prabhuji:

I have also quoted sutra 4.1.15, where it is more clear about PK. But you
 selectively omitted it. For your kind information I did not say that
 4.1.13 has influence on gyani. But I did say it, based on sutra 4.1.15
 along with sruti text (Ch. Up. 6.14.2) for delay on gyani's release.

bhaskar :

Again, its to be noted that it is in the spirit of convention of the
 eschatological mukti which is concession only in vyAvahAric view (that
 jnAni has a *body*)  shankara/shruti admits *delay* in jnAni's ultimate
 release.  But it is evident that Atmaikatva jnAna or final emancipation is
 not really an event in *time* (in this case *after* sharIra pAta/falling
 off of the body)that to be attained after exhausting *all* karma-s.

As said earlier this unembodiedness is *not* what we think happens only
 *after* giving up of jnAni-s mortal coil..it is (aharIratva) quite
 *natural* to Atma swarUpa.  shankara says in *tattu samanvayAt* sUtra
 bhAshya *tasya svAbhAvikatvAt* Further he quotes various shruti-s like
 *asharIraM sharIrOshvanvastOshvavathitaM..mahAntam vibhumAtmAnAm matvA
 dhIrO na ShOchati* from kAtaka shruti, *asaNgo ...purushaH* from
 br.shruti, *aprANo ...shubhraH* from muNdaka etc. etc. According to
 shankara, final release is only dispersal of avidyA nothing more & nothing
 less that this..And he reinforces his assertion by saying avidyA nivrutti
 and ultimate realization are not two different events..he emphasizes the
 *immediate* (jnAna samakAle) release as soon as enlightenment dawns.
 Again, kindly read 1-1-4 where shankara quotes series of shruti-s to
 justify this view point.  *kshiyante chAsya karmAni tasmin drushtE
 parAvarE (muNdaka), AnandaM brahmaNo vidvAn, na bidhEti kutaschanEti
 (taitirIya) *abhayaM yai janakaka prAptOsi (br.), *tatra kO mOhaH kaH
 ShokaH yEkatvamanupashyataH (Isha)..

>From this, we can noway imagine that shankara advocating that final release
 an event *after* some time.  shankara is very clear in treating the
 bondage of mundane suffering of jIva & its subsequent *release* from it...
 is nothing but vyAvahArik satya...ofcourse in paramArtha *na nirOdhO na
 chOtpattiH na bhaddhO na cha sAdhakaH na mumukshu yai mukta* so says
 shankara's parama guruji gaudapAdAchArya. shankara's bhAshya reads very
 interesting here.. he says all the human procedures (both vaidika &
 loukika) are in the realm of avidyA...there being neither creation nor
 dissolution & the one truth is that there are no persons bound by any sort
 of saMsAra.

RB prabhuji:

It is ok when you understand that gyani has PK only from vyavaharika
drushti. That means in absolute sense he has no PK. Right?

bhaskar :

yes prabhuji, but based on shruti/sUtra bhAshya ..bhidyatE hrudaya
graNtim...chidyantE sarva saMshayaH..kshitante *sarva* karmANi...says
shruti.

RB prabhuji:

That means he is the divine upon the dawn of gyan while living. It means
that gyani should have all features of divine, and should be able to do all
things as divine in absolute sense. In that case,

bhaskar :

there is no doership (katrutva bhAva) exists in a jnAni to do *all things*.
If he thinks that he has to *do* creation then that is ajnAna *mithyA
pratyaya rUpaH kartrutva bhOktrutva pravartakaH* shankara in adhyAsa
bhAshya.  Further,  when he realizes he is secondless & nothing there
*apart* from him, where is the question of travelling from one lOka to
another lOka...first of all to do that he has to think that his existence
limited to some particular lOka & absence in another lOka. jnAni's
knowledge is not limited in that way!!. is it not prabhuji :-))

RB prabhuji:

CAN A GYANI:

bhaskar :

IMHO, this question itself wrong...considerting jnAni's brahma svarUpa.
Can he ?? question comes only in avidyA vyavahAra.

Namaste

Badisa

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar