[Advaita-l] In Rig-veda Agni Deva, the Fire, is Brahman

sri parasukhananda nadha sriparasukhanandanadha at rediffmail.com
Sun Feb 6 10:27:03 CST 2005

                 Swatmabandhu sri Siddharthaji,

          I am highly impressed with your scholarly articles in the advitaL groop messages and understand your burning quest to know about the real knowledgr.  I read your articles on the Sun and the fire, depicting them as Brahmam.  

         But in my opinion, none with a name and form can be given the status of Brahmam instantly, although every particle of the world is not different from the Brahmam.  

         The Fire, as I know is the symbol of darkness in vedantha, and was placed in the lower Amedhya chakraas.  It is the place for all the worldly pleasures and mostly belongs to the aasuree pravritti..  The agnimandala represents to the Adholokaas which are called Andhataamisra.  These chakraas are also called as Siva Chakraas.
“Chaturasraprakritikam Siva Chakra chatushtayathmakam.”  This Agni is considered as Rudra. Himself.  “AgnirVay Rudrah”  Rudra is a god who makes every one cry and weep by immersing one in the samsaara and compels him to immerse in the worldly pleasures and suffer eternally. “Sahasraani sahasraso ye rudraa adhibhoomyaam-
theShagum sahasra yojane avadhanvaanithanmasi.”  Unless the  Rudra is associated with the Sakthi he does deserve to be honoured at all.  He can not be called Siva.

           Agni is also called Jaathavedah.  Jaathavedasi is Durga.  “Jaathavedase sunavaama somam”.  She is the nectar or the Water.  Both these water and Fire are an inseparable duel like Siva and Parvathi,  “Apsu jyothih pratishthitam”  “ “JyoteenShyaapah pratisthithaah”, “Adhbhyo agnih”.  We cant say which is first in the evolution.
“Yopaamaayatanam veda aayatanavaan bhavathi
 agnirva apaamaayatanam aayathanavaan bhavathi
 yo agneraayathanam veda aayathanavaan bhavathi
 aapova agneraayathanam aayathanavan bhavathi
 ya evam veda||”
Manthrapushpam says that agni resides in the waters and the waters reside in the agni
Those who know this secret, they alone will attain mukthi.  
In Arunam it is said—
“Ashrutaa sashrutaa sascha yajwaano ye apyajwanah
 swaryantho naapyapekshatha indramagnincha ye viduh
sikathaa iva samyanthi rasmibhih samudeerithaa
asmaallokaadamusha chyetyapahaarunikee srutih||”

                 We have to meditate upon both the agni and water together in a combined form and not separately.  Here Indra means the lord of waters. If you say Agni is Brahma,  it can not be the truth.

                 In the same way, the Sun god also cannot be considered as Brahma.  The Sun is not a reality at all.  It is the admixture of  ”agneeshomathmakam” and having no individuality at all.  The golden coloured rays of the Agni (having the nature of rising upwards) while ascending towards the moon, and the white silvery rays of the moon decending downwards, both met and mixed up in the Chathurdasa bhuvanaatmaka chaturdasaara chakra and formed as a round circle there.  It is described in sreesuuktha as “Suvarna rajatha srajaam”.  Just as the universe of the fourteen worlds is considered as Midhyaa, this Sun also should be considered as Midhya.

                 Have you ever seen any authority in vedaas that the rays of the sun going to the moon?  The vedaas recognized the moon only as Swayamprakasaka. And not the Sun god at all.  The Sun represents the universe which is Jada, cannot be  equelled with the Brahman.

                 Please excuse me if my analysis is wrong.


On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 sidha at omkarananda-ashram.org wrote :
>In Rig-veda Agni Deva, the Fire, is Brahman
>Please carefully read this. This is an attempt to find the roots of
>Advaita Vedanta Philosophy in the Rigveda.
>I would be extremely glad if Great Scholars from this list, like respected
>Vidyashankar Sundareshan ji, could comment on this.
>After reading some of the passages from the Rig-veda regarding AgniDeva,
>Fire or Light, who has been glorified in the Beginning of the Rigveda and
>Samaveda, I have concluded that AgniDeva in the Vedas is nothing else but
>a Vedic name from the Supreme, called "Brahman" in the Upanishads. One
>thing is for sure, that it is not ONLY the physical fire, but something
>more mystical and spiritual is represented by the term "Agni" (usually
>translated with "fire" into English). This would become clear if we look
>at the following passages from the Rig-veda in the light of the Mantra
>"The Truth is one, but the great seers say it in various ways, some call
>it Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Suprana, Garutman, and others call it Yama
>and Matarishva" (Rig-veda 1-164-46).
>These are passages from various Mantras from the AgniSuktas spread around
>in the Rig-veda. My research is still limited only to the 1st Mandala and
>let me tell you that the Rig-veda has 10 Mandalas. How many more such
>passages would be lying around scattered in the holy text, I would only be
>able to tell in the near future after I have completed my research. Those
>well-versed in the Upanishads would clearly find very clear passages
>describing Brahman from the Upanishads that are extremely identical to
>these Mantras.
>However, the translation of the Mantras is my own. If there is any doubt
>regarding the translation, please let me know.
>"O! You the immortal one!" (Rig-veda 1-26-9) "He exists in the entire
>universe" (1-27-3) "He is the greatest" (1-44-4) "His light travels the
>entire cosmos and his rays even touch Dyuloka, the highest Loka" (1-36-3)
>"Great Immortal Seers tried to obtain the omnipresent and the most beloved
>fire by searching in the external world, they didn't obtain it, but when
>they held their intellect they became established into its Supreme Abode"
>(1-72-2) "A wise man obtains it, it is existing in its supreme abode"
>(1-72-4) "Its greatness exceeds that of the Duloka, (the greatest Loka or
>the abode of physical light)" (1-59-5) "The fires visible in this world
>are only its branches" (1-59-1) "He is the God of Gods, He is Shiva, the
>most auspicious one" (1-31-1) "He obtains the forms of all Devas" (1-69-3)
>"He bestows peace" (1-65-3) "He is beyond any limits" (1-27-11) "He is
>great than all humans, the earth, the sky, the sees, the mountains and all
>other planets" (1-109-6) "He has created this creation, the Dyuloka and
>the infinite space by his Light (power)" (1-96-2) "He holds all human like
>a beam" (1-59-1) "He holds the entire universe" (1-73-3) "even though he
>is omnipresent, who knows him?" (1-95-4) "All this physical creation
>merges into it, like the seven reveres into the ocean" (1-71-7) "Enveloped
>with the Supreme Truth" (1-70-4) "Self-enlightened" (1-36-7) "Omniscient"
>(1-36-3) "No immortal nor any mortal being can exceed its intelligence"
>(1-19-2) "Free from taints" (1-31-9) "beloved" (1-13-3) "creator" (1-76-4)
>"He is loves all like a father loves his son, a relative his relative and
>a friend his friend" (1-26-3) "He establishes a mortal into highest
>immortality" (1-31-7) "He has endless eyes" (1-80-12) "He protects us from
>sin through knowledge and destroys the one who is eating the entire world,
>i.e. ignorance" (1-36-14) "May he bestow wealth that can nourish us and
>give happiness to us, so we may live" (1-79-9) "He is the King of all
>wealth, wealth that is existing in the mountains, waters, plants and
>humans" (1-59-3) "He hides himself in a deep cave (of our intellect,
>Hridaya Guga) holding the greatest wealth, but great seers obtain it by
>praying to it with hymns constructed in their hearts" (1-67-2) "May He
>burn all our enemies, i.e. lust hatred anger etc." (1-12-5) "It its
>presence our heart becomes divine" (1-94-1) "O Human! Worship and pray to
>him who is the first one" (1-93-3).
>Already these passages from the Rig-veda are more than sufficient to
>convince anybody that the Agni, which has been glorified and worshiped in
>the Rig-veda is not only the physical fire, but indeed it was looked upon
>as a symbol to the Supreme Fire, the Supreme Light of the Universe, the
>Supreme Truth, the Brahman of the Upanishads. Am I wrong?
>One thing more we can see a wonderful bland of Karma Yoga (Yoga of
>action), Bhakti Yoga (Yoga of devotion) and Jnana Yoga (Yoga of knowledge)
>in these hymns. There is worship, there love (devotion) for him and than
>there is its realization/knowledge, indeed the greatest thing. Worship and
>Love are only means, its realization seems to be the ultimate goal. Isn't
>that the quintessence of the philosophy of Acarya Bhagavatpada Shankara.
>More than that, this Agni is the God of Christianity, the Allah of Islam,
>the Ahura Mazda of the Persian Cultures and the Yahwah of Judaism. Let me
>tell you that he has even been called "yahvah" in Rig-veda 1-36-1.
>Doesn't the Great Persian Prophet Zarathushtra clearly proclaim in his
>Jarathoshti Gatha "Ahura Mazda is the Lord of Life and Wisdom, Light and
>the Truth. Sun, moon and starts give light, but Ahura Mazda is the Light
>that lights them to light the world". I bow down to you, o Divine Prophet!
>Nobody could have said it in better words! Isn't this the same what the
>Upanishads say about the Supreme Brahman! "tameva bhaantam anubhaati
>sarvam tasya bhaasaa sarvam idam vibhaati" i.e. all these, the sun, moon,
>thunderbolt and fire, enlighten all this after the Supreme, indeed, by the
>light of the Supreme all this is enlightened. (Mundaka Upanishad).
>In the I would like to conclude with a hymn from the Shukla Yajur Veda
>(31-18), "I have realized that Supreme, the most enlightened one, whose
>color is like that of the Sun and who transcends all darkness. Only by
>realizing him one can transcend death, there is no other path to reach
>that goal".
>Negative comments are most most welcome. It is very well possible that I'm
>missing or overlooking something
>Love and Respect,
>Siddhartha Krishna
>  Omkarananda Ashram Himalayas, Rishikesh–249192, U.A. INDIA
>  91  135  2431473  /  2001779  /  2430763
>  91  135  2431531
>  91  9837302504
>  sidha80 at hotmail.com
>  Join our Vedic Wisdom and Yoga Mailing List
>Visit our beautiful temple at: http://www.omkarananda-kamakshi.org/
>Would like to know more about us: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/
>To buy CDs by Siddhartha Krishna:
>want to unsubscribe or change your options? See:
>Need assistance? Contact:
>listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org

More information about the Advaita-l mailing list