[Advaita-l] janmana jaayate shUdraH

[vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy]

Based on one's livelihood and way of life the
classification is still valid.

professions and knowledge become hereditary over time,
this is applicable to all castes and creed leading to
imbalance this is applicable to all societies not
restricted to India alone. 
the ruling class (kings) guarded zealously their
kingdoms for their off springs, businessmen imparted
their trade only to their own (some trades are still
that way even till date), priests guarded their
secrets by building a veil of ignorance etc...
Just as how difficult it is to find out what the
priest does inside the sanctum, it is equally
difficult to find out the recipe from a cook or the
exact temperature and mix of elements to be used to
produce exotic jewelry from a goldsmith unless one
belongs to that community.
Every few generations, society gradually attempts to
correct itself (for example there are not a lot of
kingdoms/Empires surviving today) however leading to
over-correction and thus stability is sill an utopian
concept. This is what makes studying history,
religion, myths, urban legends and philosophy
fascinating.  
Unfortunately societies can over-correct to an extent
of becoming extinct too! 
Maybe over an over-arching period there will be a form
of positive dynamic stability.
At a point in time a particular solution may hold good
but there is a very high probability that it will not
be valid later on.
i am a brahmin when i do nityakarma, a vaysia when i
purchase groceries and at work and a kshatriya when i 
manage others. according to Manu i should be a shudra
by my actions however the government i am sure will
still classify me as a brahmin. re classification at
the very least will provide my children with a better
shot at acquiring education and work in some states(
which takes me back to my second statement). 
  
-vishwanathan


--- Srikrishna Ghadiyaram
<srikrishna_ghadiyaram at yahoo.com> wrote:

> hariH Om !!
> 
> --- "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Srikrishna Ghadiyaram wrote:
> > 
> > > level of giving them recognition of the lapses
> of
> > the
> > > previous society, but not to make them as part
> of
> > one
> > > of the 4 castes or even ONE caste, even at the
> > level
> > > of a secular society i.e spiritual karma as per
> > one's
> > > tradition but equal in democracy, knowing fully
> > well
> > > that we have no choice at this stage of society.
> > 
> > There is no place on planet earth where the poor
> are
> > equal to the rich.
> > Democracy or otherwise.
> > 
> 
> Who is talking about equality of rich and poor?
> Democracy has much larger objective than that. We
> are
> talking about new order of social justice based on a
> larger understanding of human nature, humaneness.
> The
> same democracy has permitted a brAhmana to perform
> whatever he  desires. He is allowed to take part in
> all the other jobs. Here we are talking about some
> totally under-privileged segment of the society
> which
> is not even having that chance. The goal is how to
> deliver that equality of humanness, in a tangible
> and
> practical way. I am not asking your money? The
> resources of this mother earth are equal to
> everyone.
> Let not people exploit the uninformed and the
> powerless. We are forming new rules of how the
> wealth
> and resources and opportunities are distributed to
> all
> the people.
> 
> > >Still  we are interpreting Dharma in terms of the
> > old
> > > scriptures, and not according to new order of
> > reality.
> > 
> > The new order of reality can jump in a lake.  I
> > adjust the order of
> > reality to fit my own needs as all free men do.
> > 
> 
> I guess, it needs more decent rational thinking as
> you
> advocate many a time. If you need to take a break,
> please do so.
> 
> There are many free men who think that dharma needs
> a
> careful re-look. These people point out that there
> is
> a lot of mis-understanding which has probably creapt
> in in actual practice. It may not throw away the
> dharma sastras. It may throw away the distortions
> from
> the initial intent, as many of us are doing now. You
> have claimed 'clear conscience' at the end of the
> mail. What is being asked is that everyone should
> 'clear their conscience' and create an opportunity
> for
> all humans to live in peace and not exploitation.
> This
> is the order of new reality, I am saying we should
> consider. We are not going to jump into a lake !!
> (as
> you suggest)
> 
> > > I do not know when will a brAhmaNa who so claims
> > will
> > > get to do his duties prescribed for him in the
> > Dharma
> > > sastras !! When will he be compassionate and
> > > charitable and have self-ralization as his sole
> > goal,
> > > and works to help all the other castes and
> > creatures
> > > without claiming spremacy. If that day comes,
> yes
> > then
> > > you can have a society modelled around the 4
> varna
> > > system.
> > 
> > Stop worrying about society and do your own duty. 
> > Then society will take
> > care of itself.  As for me, my conscience is
> clear.
> > 
> 
> As an educated man if you are content with your
> 'clear
> conscience' and then start mailing lists and believe
> that all is taken care, an ignorant man continues to
> worry about the people at large. This becomes part
> of
> my duty as well. You know about need-based special
> karmas one is enjoined to do, right ?
> 
> I am pointing to the failings of the society. I
> doubt
> if anybody is envious of a brAhmaNa because he is
> not
> able to perform yagnas or not having upanayanam. All
> the unrest in the society is because under the name
> of
> their higher caste(s) status, many social privileges
> were neglected for the 4 th caste and casteless
> people. If you can deliver social justice, none of
> those people will fight for becoming and branded as
> brAhmaNas etc.
> 
> Om Namo Narayanaya !!
> 
> Srikrishna
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 		
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