[Advaita-l] Re: Is an ISvara compatible with advaita?
sri parasukhananda nadha
sriparasukhanandanadha at rediffmail.com
Sat Feb 19 09:46:53 CST 2005
Let me say something about Ishwara, as I understood, that Ishwara is not any individual charecter like our human beings.
If you point at one tree, you will call it a tree. But when you look at a large number of trees, you will name the total unit as a garden or a forest. Actually there is no article with a name of a garden or a forest is existing there, but only a number of treees are there. This is called Samasti or total unit.
In a human being, there are three Avasthas, namely Jagrat (wakeful state), Swapna (dreemy state) and Sushupthi (somber sleepy state).
Now I wish to say that the Vyasti state (unitary)of the Jagrat of all the beings, is called Vishwa (the world), and the Samasti of this Vishwa is called Vaishwanara. In the same way, the total unit of Swapna of all the beings is called Thaijasa, and its collective form (Samasti) is called Hiranyagarbha. Likewise, the total unit of the Sushupti avastha of all beings is called 'Praagna'; and the collective (Samasti) of this Praagna state itself is called "Ishwara". This Ishwara is just only a stateof Avastha, we all experience every day, as total collectiveness of Moola avidya and the total collective unit of blissfulness.
When the Parabrahma (ie., yourself or myself or himself) is reflected in the so called Maya which the total cause for this whole universe, that reflection is called Ishwara. When you have reflected in the Maaya like the Sun reflecting in waters, that image of yourself is called Ishwara. In the same way, all the gods of Puranas are none but the subtlest forms of our Indriyaas, Indriyaarthaas, Anthahkaranaas etc., only. There is no place for any confusion, if we take everything in that sense.
"Mattah paratharam naasthi kinchid"
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 Amuthan Arunkumar R wrote :
>Dear SrI rAmakr.shNan bAlasubramanian,
>before anything else, let me clear a small
>misunderstanding : i'm not trying to refute advaita.
>neither am i supporting viSishTAdvaita. i was just
>asking for proper explanation of some questions which
>sounded very tough to answer (for me).
> > --- Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian
><rama.balasubramanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> > For advaitins shruti pramaaNa asserts non-duality,
> > example the
> > bR^ihadaaraNyaka says yatra hi dvaitam etc. So there
> > is no Ishvara and
> > jIva distinction in reality, as per this passage.
> > Before asking
> > questions about Ishvara, etc., it is necessary to
> > understand that for
> > advaitins this assertion of shruti pramaaNa alone is
> > enough. Blueness
> > of sky etc are _illustrations_ meant to help the
> > ignorant, not the
> > true state of reality. If the illsutration matched
> > reality perfectly,
> > what is the use of yato vaaco nivartante" etc?
>as far as i can understand, ISvara exists only in the
>vyAvahArika state. the above argument of urs suggests
>to me that an ISvara has no place in advaita. if i can
>rephrase my original question, what is the notion of
>an ISvara according to advaita? my understanding goes
>as follows : during the state of vyAvahArika, ISvara,
>jIva and jagat are relatively eternal. in the
>pAramArthika state, all duality is transcended and
>only brahman exists.
>given this, and the fact that ISvara is a sarvajN.a,
>the natural conclusion that He must know both brahman
>(His svarUpam) and mAyA seems to go against advaita.
> > --- Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian
> > Like Kartik, I too did not wish to participate in
> > this discussion. It
> > just has too many mis-understandings of advaita. It
> > seems in almost
> > periodic intervals we have mainly vishishhTAdvaitins
> > posting questions
> > such as these, in a somewhat combative tone (my
> > personal opinion).
>presently, i'm neither a viSishTAdvaitin nor an
>advaitin, though i "believe" that the upanishads can
>furnish me all that i require to know; as i mentioned
>earlier, i'm looking for solutions to some questions
>that i found difficult to address myself.
> > have had extensive phone conversations etc stemming
> > from discussions
> > on the bhakti list and it seems that some basic
> > homework is required
> > on the part of the vishishhTAdvaitins before they
> > ask questions about
> > Ishvara, etc. First they should understand advaita
> > from texts like
> > upadeshasaahasrii and not books like "Advaita and
> > Vishistaadvaita: A
> > comparative approach". It's just riddled with many
> > misinterpretations
> > of advaita.
>i've not read any book like "advaita and
>vishistadvaita: a comparative approach". i haven't
>read upadeSa sAhasri fully either. but based on
>whatever i've read and listened about advaita, to my
>knowledge, i haven't come across any proper
>explanation to the question raised.
>as a minor note, if my tone was combative, please
>forgive me. it was not intentional.
>Amuthan Arunkumar R,
>4th year, B.Tech/M.Tech Dual Degree,
>Department of Aerospace Engineering,
>Indian Institute of Technology Madras.
>Address : 327, Tapti Hostel, IIT Madras.
>Ph : 9840482709
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