[Advaita-l] RE: Vedic Shakhas for kshatriyas and vaishyas?

[arun nair]

Dear All,

A doubt from a relatively new student of Vedanta. Is one a brahmana by birth 
or as per one's gunas and karma as mentioned in Bhagavad Geeta Chapter4.13.

regards

arun

>From: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: satisharigela at yahoo.com,A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta 
><advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta 
><advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] RE: Vedic Shakhas for kshatriyas and vaishyas?
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:36:51 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>--- sidha at omkarananda-ashram.org wrote:
>
> > Sir, I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with you.
> > "Svaadhyayo'dhyetavyah"
> > is not a statement only for men, it is for all.
>
>True that it is for all. The only difference is that
>women and the fourth caste do svadhyaya by using the
>puranas and agamas not by reciting veda-s.
>
>
> > I think women should read the Vedas. Therefore she
> > is going into the
> > correct direction, and sorry sir, but I think you
> > ought to follow her.
>
>Following such deluded ones like her will certainly
>lead to disaster.
>
> > I can't understand when there are nearly 11 Rishikas
> > (Female Seers) in the
> > Rig-veda, to whom Divine Mantras were reveled by the
> > Supreme Reality, how
> > come somebody can say that women shouldn't read the
> > Vedas. What about
> > Gargi and Maitreyi?
> > When the Supreme Godhead has been worshipped in so
> > many female forms, like
> > Ida, Aditi, Ushas, Sarasvati in the Vedas itself,
> > how can somebody claim
> > that the Vedas shouldn't be read by ladies?
>
>I fail to see why or how any of the above means that
>women and non-dvija-s should recite vedas.
>
> > Even if the Puranas mention such statements, then
> > they should be
> > considered "avaidika" i.e. against the Vedas. And
> > doesn't Manu ji mention
> > that any Smriti that is against the Veda shouldn't
> > be accepted.
>
>The same Manu says that women and shudras are not
>supposed to recite vedas etc.
>Women had adhikara in the past but it they are barred
>from doing so for this yuga just like niyoga and other
>things are to be avoided in Kali Yuga.
>Shudras never had adhikara to learn vedas before.
>
> > Please make it clear that in the Yajur Veda the
> > Supreme Reality has
> > clearly mentioned that "I'm uttering this divine
> > auspicious voice for all
> > people, for the Brahmanas, Kshatriyas, Shudras,
> > Vaishyas, for those who
> > belong to me and for those who are not related to
> > me" (Shukla Yajur Veda
> > 26-2).
>
>   What it means is that teach the essence of supreme
>to everyone. Since women and shudras cant learn veda
>that "auspicious voice" should be taught to them using
>puranas and agamas.
>
> > How then can somebody claim that the Vedas should be
> > read by some
> > particular people. They are the words of God, and
> > belong to everybody in
> > this world.
> >They don't belong to anybody particular
> > in India, or even to
> > India alone.
>
>Vedas are the exclusive property of Brahmanas.
>Kshatriyas and Vaishyas can learn them if a Brahmana
>is willing to teach. That they are not for everyone is
>mentioned not only in the puranas but also in the
>Agamas.
>This is also said in various agamas/tantras.
>
>A scripture which orders us "to make
> > the entire world Arya,
> > i.e. noble" how on earth can somebody claim it to
> > belong to any particular
> > country, cast, sex or religion.
>
>  No body is claiming. The devatas themselves said that
>vedas are the property of Brahmanas.
>
> > A Book which tells us that "let me look upon all
> > creatures with a friendly
> > eye", how can it teach us killing animals? It is all
> > misinterpretation
> > from the beginning to end.
>
>The same books presribe the usage of animals. Devi
>Bhagavatha for one says that killing for a sacrifice
>is not killing and hence nothing is being killed when
>an animal is cut during a yaga.
>
> > Let me make it clear, I have been studying Vedanta
> > from some very
> > traditional masters since the last 20 years. I have
> > studied the
> > Prasthanatraya Bhashyam with Ananda Giri's
> > commentary from orthodox
> > traditional masters.
>
>   Great!
>
> >And after I studied the Vedas
> > myself, I came to the
> > conclusion that many of the traditional beliefs or
> > statements in Vedanta
> > regarding the Vedas are totally wrong and are
> > existing because most of the
> > Vedantin simply didn't study the Samhitas.
>
>  Obviously a wrong conclusion.
>
>  Most of these might have been discussed earlier were
>adddressed before. You can search the archives for
>discussions here.
>http://escribe.com/religion/advaita/index.html
>
>I think you need to do more research and spare us of
>these long lectures.
>
>Rgds
>
>
>
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