[Advaita-l] BG 2.45: nirguNa or saguNa?

[bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com]

praNAms Mahesh Ursekar prabhuji
Hare Krishna

MU prabhuji:

1. Can you tell me how you interpret statements made by Guadapada that
there is no creation and Brahman is the only reality? And as far as I know
Sankara does agree with him.

bhaskar :

prabhuji I think you are quoting here...na nirOdhO na chOtpatti na bhaddhO
na cha sAdhakaH...na mumukShuNo vai ....ityEsha paramArThatha!!  ( kindly
bear with my transliteration..) yes, prabhuji, in the absolute state there
is no creation, no aspirant nothing else except yEkamEvAdvitIya
brahman...For that matter Sri gaudapAdAchArya echoing the shruti's
ultimatum here i.e. AtmAva idamagra asIt yEkamEva advitIya brahma.

But in advaita as you know we do discuss from two different view points one
is loukika (empirical) another is pAramArthika (transcedental)..from the
absolute point of view what kArikA says is true even shAstra-s are not
shAstra-s in that state!! (atra vEda avEda says bruhadAraNyaka shruti).
But in vyavahAra for the sake of teaching, from adhyArOpa drushti
shruti/advaita accepts creation, jIva, sAdhaka, Ishwara etc. for the sake
of teaching the absolute featureless brahman.  Ofcourse as you know enquiry
into the nature of jIvAtman, its entanglement (bandha)to different state of
consciousness (jAgrat, svapna, suShupti), its transmigratory nature, their
release from the bondage and the means of release etc. etc. all these
presuppose creation...advaita/shruti sincerely obliges it from the
transactional view point.

MU prabhuji:

If the Jnani sees the world outside then isn't that creation in some sense?

bhaskar :

jnAni sees the world *as if* he is seeing the world outside of him..for us
who are under the influence of avidyA looks like that but jnAni's
perception transcends duality & seeming multifarious nature of universe.
Even after realizing *blueness* does not belong to sky, dont we continue to
see *blue sky* prabhuji??  but as you know this perception is polished with
bhAdhita jnAna. Shankara discusses this issue in sUtra bhAshya in a
detailed manner.

MU prabhuji :

2. Sankara interprets the world as ignorance of seeing the rope in the
snake. Isn't the Jnani seeing the snake *and* the rope if s/he posits
Brahman and the world? In fact, according the later philosophers of Advaita
the claim is made that the world appears like a dream when Brahman is
realized. Sankara never said that.

bhaskar :

Why only advaita & its Acharya-s??  even shruti tells that this world is
like *gandharva nagari* (illusionary celestial abode) ItarEya shruti says
tasya traya avasaTha trayi svapnAH...Atman seemingly has three avasTha-s
(jAgrat, svapna & suShupti) but all the three states are just like dreams
considering Atman's ever witnessing nature. World which is appearing only
in particular avasthA i.e. jAgrat cannot be more than dream then as it has
only temporary existence!! In the ItarEya bhAshya shankara says *nanu
jAgaritaM prabhOdharUpatvAt na svapnaH! naivaM *svapna yEva*...

 MU prabhuji:

3. In the Mundaka Upanishad passage of the two birds, why does he chose the
higher bird to be Isvara and not Brahman? I think it is to allude to the
fact that a Jnani is above the world and a samaric is not.

bhaskar :

As said earlier, when you are identifying Ishvara, jnAni with nAma & rUpa
upAdhi then you are right its another bid bird in the tree!!...But we have
to understand shruti-s implied meaning by keeping advaita's parama
siddhAnta in mind when reading maNtra-s.

Sorry, still I could not able to refer the shankara bhAshya in detail on
this maNtra.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar