[Advaita-l] Re: A Conversation between Divine Will and Free Will

[Mahesh Ursekar]

Pranams:

DDW (in soliloquy): TD is right - it can't be all black and white. But
let me think some of his statements through so that I can better
understand him. He says:
> Even God cannot guarantee that man will not behave in an animal way. And that > proves that Man has free will!
Which is true if you pick up any newspaper these days. But the "cannot
guarantee" is perplexing since God is Omniscient and should know how
Man should behave under any circumstance. Does that mean that, like he
mentioned  earlier, the Almighty is choosing to not be Almighty when
he does this?
But the statement:
> dilemma depends upon three factors. 1. The situation or the
> action that we are talking about. 2. Level of spiritual
> evolution of the individual concerned. 3. Degree of
> willingness to stand apart and surrender the ego.
This is wonderful! That does put things is very good perspective and
serves to explain a presence of free will while at the same time
allowing for divine will.

I can't wait for tommorrow....

Regards, Mahesh


On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:00:43 -0800 (PST), V. Krishnamurthy
<profvk at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Namaste.
> 
> (Continued from where we left in Post no. 16174
> http://www.escribe.com/religion/advaita/m16174.html   )
> 
> DDW:  You (TD) are saying that the other Power within us is
> our own PrakRti, i.e., our own svabhAva, nature.  I have
> never heard of this concept of 'individualised prakRti'
> that you are using.
> 
> TD:  In Gita Ch.3, shloka No.33 the Lord says that even the
> wise man  does work according to his prakRti. Acharya
> Shankara, in commenting on this, writes: 'Prakriti is
> nothing but the accumulated samskAras of our past lives
> individualised and earmarked for this life of ours'. The
> sanskrit word 'prakRta' (from which 'prakRti' is derived)
> means 'currently in vogue'.
> 
> DDW: But why is God causing people to behave the way they
> do in these times? How can you account for the fact that
> the world is in such a mess? Why is everyone now immersed
> in thinking only of themselves and not the greater good?
> Why is this play?
> 
> DFW:  You said it right. It all looks like a deliberate
> play. In fact, I would say that if the theory of play is
> right, then God must be a sadist!
> 
> TD:  No, no. Not that way. It is a play alright, but that
> is what is termed in the Puranas as God's LeelA.  That
> requires a lot of faith to go in that direction. Let us
> pursue the trend of our  conversation in the way we started
> it. First God is not causing people to behave the way they
> do.  It is the people who behave that way. That itself
> tells you that people have the freewill to  do what they
> want to do. This free will God has granted man.
> 
> DFW:  At last you are veering to my viewpoint!
> 
> TD:  Don't be too assured.  Of course God has granted
> freewill to us both to obey His orders like satyam vada and
> dharmam cara and also to disobey them.
> 
> DDW:  That is what I call the play of the Divine.
> 
> DFW:  But then God must be foolish to play that dangerous
> game.
> 
> DDW: Your choice of words 'dangerous game' reminds me of
> what  Sathya Sai Baba once replied to a devotee. The
> devotee asked him, while they were walking along the shores
> of the Arabian Sea, 'Lord, if you are capable of doing all
> those miracles for which you are known, why don't you
> change this entire sea into a sea of petrol and thus solve
> the problem of scarcity of oil-fuel in the world?'.  Sathya
> Sai Baba immediately replied: 'But then I cannot guarantee
> that no crazy human being like you would not throw a
> lighted cigarette into that sea!'.
> 
> TD: The moral of the story is: Even God cannot guarantee
> that man will not behave in an animal way. And that proves
> that Man has free will!
> 
> DFW: Oh Good! Daniel come to judgement!
> 
> DDW: But then where does all this lead us?
> 
> TD:  It leads to our starting point. It is not all black
> and white. It is a spectrum of colours. The answer to the
> dilemma depends upon three factors. 1. The situation or the
> action that we are talking about. 2. Level of spiritual
> evolution of the individual concerned. 3. Degree of
> willingness to stand apart and surrender the ego.
> 
> DDW.  I am sure on the third factor the generality of us
> may be taken to be at the base  level.
> 
> TD. To simplify the discussion I am willing to assume, for
> the present, that with respect to the second factor –
> spiritual evolution also – we are almost at the base level.
> Once we do that, we come back to the child level of
> spiritual evolution, which we have already discussed. At
> this level, it is Free will that is considered to be
> dominant in the psychology of the individual  concerned.
> But this is only the beginning. But when we start moving up
> the ladder of spiritual evolution, our factor levels get a
> gradual relaxation.
> 
> DFW.  I think this is too much for me today. Why not we
> continue tomorrow?
> 
> DDW and TD:  OK.
> 
> (To be continued)
> 
> PraNAms to all seekers of Truth.
> profvk
> 
> Prof. V. Krishnamurthy
> 
> You are welcome to have a look at any of the following  books on my website:
> http://www.geocities.com/profvk
> 
> 1. Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision & Practice
> 2. Live Happily, the Gita Way
> 3. Advaita Dialogue for beginners.
> 4. Discourses of the Paramacharya on Soundaryalahari.
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