[Advaita-l] Seeking God, swadharma, varna and occupation, etc

Viswanathan N vishy1962 at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 5 00:30:17 CDT 2006

Times have changed so much and I dont think there is any meaning in this jatis are varnas.
  Bhramin is one with Bhramha jnana, whose primary task is selflessly teaching and gudinging others towards Bhramhan.....  Tell me  is there any real Bhramin arround, now ?(by birth I too am one...basically a CA and presenly working in gulf...any meaning of swadharama!!!!)
  Kshariya is one who maintains righteouness in the state and protect the subjects from external evil forces.... of course as duty not looking for personal gains
  Is there one now? (forget our politicians...they are jokers)
  Vaisya is one who work to provide livelihood for others and thery by earns his livelihood too and Sudhra is meant to serve other three in performing their duties.In a way now everyone of us is either a sudhra or at the best a vaisya (sorry to say ,but  including many of so called religious heads)
  I am sure just by undergoing upanayana or doing sandyavandhana one won't become Bhramin or just becaz not doing those one becomes shudra.
  these varnas do prevail even in present day...but not on the basis of birth certificate or what you do to earn your roti/kapda....   based on the mindset, the maturity and  thinking of a person can make a person a Bharmin , a vysya or a sudhra...
  But ultimately these things (as well the issues like women's right on vedas) are also not very relevent to
  genune seekers as seeking comes to end only when you drop 'the Mind'itself
  Aum tat sat
ravi chandrasekhara <vadhula at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Dear Lsit members,

To elaborate further on Jaldhar's reponses to Santosh
Nair, I would like to add further responses/questions.

It appears that many of the Shudra and Avarna jatis
may have more flexibility in chosing occupations that
may not go against their swadharma and nityakarmas.
They can still follow "dharmas common to all as per
shastras". In many instances many still can eat meat
(barring beef) and perhaps consume ethanol. Kanchi
Acharya Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswati stated all 4
varnas can perform oupasana with agni and have many
samskaras in common. The only thing is that they
cannot undergo upanayan, wear yagnopaveet, chant
vedas, or become "Brahminical" purohits. (I used that
term b/c there are instances of non-Brahmin purohits
in some shrines) To elaborate further, the Kamma
caste in Andhra Pradesh are part of the Shudra varna
but have engaged in agriculture, films (e.g. NT
RamaRao), politics, and as kings (Nayaks of
Thanjavur). So what a Kamma's swadharma be in terms
occupation ?

On the otherhand, a Brahmin need not be "professional
vadika or purohit, etc" but can maintian swadhrama by
undergoing upanayana, etc. Kanchi Acharya grudgingly
accepts this as a minimum (as per book: Hindu Dharma) 
But are their occupations inimical to a Brahmin's
swadharma? (working as a butcher, fisherman, etc)

What is a Kshatriya to do if not rule or be a soldier?
In my limited reading of puraanas, etc; in
pre-Mahabharata times all Kshatriyas engaged in those
activities. In modern times, it is harder to do (No
formal kings in India) Do non-Kshatriyas have shastric
sanction to be kings ? I heard Brahmins can in times
of apat-kaal. The maharaja of Varanasi is Bhumihar
Brahmin, Rani of Jhansi was Karhade Brahmin, and
Maharaja of Dharbanga of Northern Bihar is a Mithilla

There are some Shudra, avarna, and Panchama (Harijan)
jatis have fixed hereditary occupations. So as per
shastras should a Tamil Hindu Fisherman caste member
always be one to maintain swadharma ? (or does he have
shastric sanction to do another occupation)

Another thing is that "why" are some jatis who perform
Kshatriya or Vaisya like functions considered Shudras
? (e.g. Reddys, Kammas, Patidars, Kunbis, Vellalas,
etc) I read in one list where the author stated that
those jatis who didn't accept "vedic norms" (prob not
the accurate word I am using), could perform their
occupations as Kshatriyas/Vaisyas but wouldn't have
the right for yagnopaveet and would be considered
Shudras; what is the historical veracity of this ? On
the otherhand, there are stories behind why jatis like
Maheshwaris in Rajasthan and Aggarwals who were
Kshatriyas that became Vaisyas. But on the otherhand,
jatis like Lohanas and Khatris are Kshatriyas but
historically for the past 1000 years (reported as
decline during Muslim rule) have performed Vaisya like

Many modern day occupations dont fit into any varna
and many members of all varnas perform them.
(physician, attorney, IT, engineering, etc) What do
shastras or more specifically, acharyas of the major
sampradayas say ? It would appear based on what I
stated above many Shudra/avarna jatis, Brahmins, and
perhaps Vaisyas can perform these modern day
occupations w/o violation of swadharma. But what about
those of Kshatriya varna ? And to take it further, if
all Kshatriya descendants of a Kshatriya
nonruler/non-soldier continue in a similar fashion,
would they still be considered Kshatriyas (by virtue
of marrying Kshatriya members only non-rulers/non-soldiers> and undergoing
upanayana/performing sandhya-vandana as per Kshatriya
customs) Or do we all have it wrong and we should
perform our traditional roles professionally ?

Another point is that Brahmins in some respects are
more homogeneous than Shudras. For example, gotras
are similar, performance of nitya-karmas, and
samskaras, and their specific dharma.The regional
differences among Brahmins are prob more recent b/c of
migration. Many Bengali Brahmins are from Kannauj in
UP, Havyaka Brahmins in Karnataka are from UP, Nagar
Brahmins in Gujarat poss came from North India. 
Barring sagotra, from a shastric standpoint there prob
is no bar on intermarriage among jatis of Brahmins. 
Iyers and Iyengars (belonging to different
sampradayas) intermarry, many North Indian Brahmin
jatis intermarry, as some Kannada and Marrathi
Brahmins. (Similarly this occurs among royal families
belonging to Kshatriya varna)But among many Shudra
jatis, it appears to be very jati specific rather
varna specific. For example would ther be shastric
injunction barring marriage between a Telugu Reddy and
Maratha Kunbi or Gujarati Patel and a Tamil Vellala ?

Sorry this is long, more to come later.

Dhanyavaad, Ravi Chandrasekhara

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