[Advaita-l] 'End' not 'Means'
all_discussions at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 14 00:20:25 CDT 2006
Needless to say, every means has a seed of an "end" in it..every "cause" an "effect"...both of these die only when cause is transcended then their is neither cause nor effect (which is in gita the transcendence of gunas or from other scriptures the transcendence of mind which is the sole impulse for action)...and in this world of causality there should be some sequence of cause and effect but when there is transcendece through the transcendence of mind there is no such continuity...at least at individual level...and there is liberation there and then...
Amuthanji...your point is valid...and so is Swami Vivekananda's but the thing is the context you are talking is different from his and so is Vishwanathanji.....
what Vishwanathanji was talking was infact "means" which is the means to that "end" .... I think what he means is that instead of talking about if women can read vedas or not or this or that...it is better to stay away from such debates that could have no solution from so many centuries and wouldn't be so atleast for india...for tying ourselves with such bondages where we have all the means to freedom has become a curse for us...it is like "this is my boon...this is my curse..."... also women can think for themselves what they want and also that it is high time; for women are gaining that liberty...
this is the reason sometimes I feel WEST is on the better edge...for they don't have to believe something or disbelieve something...they don't have something that has been embedded into them as a tradition...and coming out of all such notions is the means to that end...which is also being notionless state....I know how many shakles India has tied itself into but somewhere they are important to come out of them also so I won't deny their importance.....Tradition is a great base but if that becomes a bondage instead of that flight of the bird towards freedom then it is again another bane of such tradition...for there is so much literature on it...and most of them are so contradictory that there is no other way except one's own intelligence....no other at all..only the self...only the self can know itself....
Gerji...Sanjayji pointed out good things......
First things first....I am reading you Gerji most of your emails...and all of them had a good understanding....it is also true as to who am I to say such things..but I think we all have a sense of truth....and we all can stand our own authorities..and until we be so we will stay in bondage....everyone had to say something good...
in that i think krishnamurthi said good things for he was very blunt at times...an axe is sometimes needed to cut the very rooot...
Regarding Krishnamurthi...I definitely understand from where Krsihnamurti was speaking...needless to talk about Swami Vivekananda....or the culmination in Ramana Maharshi.... Krishnamurthy was blunt for bluntness is sometimes needed....people give so much value to certain things that until and unless they break such bonds there is no freedom..well krishnamurthy was missing certaing things in his talks that became a distortion for many people...Well Ramana Maharshi is perfect in his talks.... there is nothing more than that....Even Swami Vivekananda will seem contradictory but that is how it is....contradiction is the way to understand things in a better light..mind kills mind..poison poison...nail takes out nail..contradictions remove contradictions and doubts...
In truth...debates can keep going....every person has a level of understanding ..some understand from some level..others from other..and there may not be a common ground for them....and endless people can come up with endless arguments....and keep going...ad infinitum...only the one who has established in true understanding understands them all....
Well Gerji...another addition to your present past and future thing...you can also put it this way that there is only present and no past or future...for whatever there is IS.....rest is in the dream...only mind stays in past or future....and if you are talking about past or future or in fact present it is all in mind...and in true sense present is that in which there is an infinity of mind's vastness in which it is not bonded to past or future and the pure intelligence seeps through it effortlessly then that is what IS...
If someone can really practice to stay in present and the pure intelligence flows effortlessly through it in its infinity of expansion then there is freedom there and then...that is another practice that can be applied..it may seem just words..but its practice will transcend the past and future...which is the transcendence of mind.....in fact in each of my email I have talked about the practical aspect from where I understand things...and that is what I think Vishwanathanji meant as his end which is in fact the means....
Amuthan <aparyap at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
dear shrI vishvanAthan,
--- Viswanathan N wrote:
> May I request everyone to concentrate more on the
> " end" rather disucssing about just " means" like
> this.(women & vedas...etc)
here's what svAmi vivekAnanda said regarding means and
ends: 'Let us perfect the means; the end will take
care of itself.' (C.W., Vol.2, Work and it's Secret)
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