[Advaita-l] Self-knowledge

[Amuthan]

namo nArAyaNAya!

dear shrI S.N.shAstrI,

--- "S.N. Sastri" <sn.sastri_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> As I understand it, once avidyA is destroyed,
> identification with the
> body-mind complex ceases. Then he remains
> established in the realization
> that he is not the body-mind complex, but the
> supreme Self, brahman. After
> that  there is no need of any further special
> knowledge, since avidyA, which
> is what covered the svarUpa j~nAna and projected the
> world, has been
> removed.
> [...]
> Is this not jivanmukti?

for a brahmavit, avidyA is not completely removed
though he has a first hand knowledge of brahman. even
for a brahmavit, an intellect exists and in that
intellect, there is a knowlege of the form 'i am
brahman and not this body-mind complex'. this is
AtmAnAtma viveka and is referred to as tattva j~nAna.
but technically, this is not jIvanmukti. MS says the
following: 'tatra chaturthI bhUmIM prAptaysa mR^itasya
** jIvanmuktyabhAve.api ** videha kaivalyaM prati
nAstyeva saMshayaH.' - 'but for one who has reached
(only upto) the fourth stage (sattvApatti) and dies,
there is no doubt that he gets videha kaivalya
(liberation after the body dies), ** even though
jIvanmukti does not occur **'.

thus, a brahmavit is sure to get videha kaivalya, but
he CANNOT be called a jIvanmukta. 

regarding the topic of self knowledge, if the tattva
j~nAna mentioned above is accepted as self knowledge,
it is certainly intellectual. svAmi vidyAraNya defines
tattva j~nAna thus: 'idaM sarvamAtmaiva pratIyamAnaM
tu rUparasAdikaM jaganmAyAmayaM natvetat vastuto.asti
iti nishchayaH tattvaj~nAnam' - 'a definite
(knowledge) of the form 'all this is indeed the AtmA.
the perceived world of forms, taste etc. is illusory
and does not exist at all.' is known as tattva
j~nAna'. 

AtmAnAtma viveka can also arise from shAstra and
gurUpadesha, but that is only indirect knowledge
(parokSha j~nAna). the only problem i have is calling
that itself as aparokSha j~nAna. the tattva j~nAna
mentioned above arises *after* sattvApatti (direct
experience of brahman) and it is only this that
deserves to be called direct knowledge (aparokSha
j~nAna). and yes, i agree with you that it is this
tattva j~nAna that destroys avidyA.

i quote below as a conclusion to our discussion the
apt illustration you provided for understanding this
subject: 

--- "S.N. Sastri" <sn.sastri_at_gmail.com> wrote:

"You may know the classical example. The heat of the
sun cannot by itself burn a piece of straw. But when
this heat is focussed through a lens it burns the
straw. svarUpaj~nAna is like the sun and vRtti j~nAna
is like the heat through the lens. svarUpa j~nAna is
no doubt beyond the intellect because it alone is
pAramArthika (absolute reality), while the intellect
is only vyAvahArika (empirical reality)."
  
---

thanks a lot! this is certainly one of the best
discussions that i had in this list.
 
vAsudevaH sarvaM,
aparyAptAmR^itaH.


		
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