Goodness (was Re: [Advaita-l] 'End' not 'Means')

[m w]

Amuthanji,
   
   How can one look at the ocean from the parameters of a pond? There is no good in stopping Adityaji from his enquiry, which in fact won't be stopped until and unless he himself reaches somewhere. Your saying will have no effect. jNAna, you have completely alienated from science. It can never be so. I don't know what are you working on these days( your thesis etc.), not atleast something related to science otherwise you are making a great blasphemy (art, music, psychology, philosophy  whatever you name is science). You are trying to make your living based on science and still denying the wisdom separate from it. 
  It is for sure true that it is not at all needed in the first place to reach the truth based on science, but the alienation of science from Advaita is another blunder that has been made by many, that's the reason, science has still not reached the stage where it may appreciate the  pure itnelligence as a pre-condition for everything. Where it will calm down in its speculations as it does with human mind... The bondage and libeartion is of the mind and so is it with the science... As it is with microcosm, so with macrocosm. 
   
  1. a 'vedAntin' is necessarily an Astika.
        No such conception is needed. Wisdom or Truth is beyond any such notions. This is the reason Buddhism is condemned by many of those who bring theism beyond its limits. Buddha said nothing of theism or atheism, and anyone who reaches Budhdhahood doesn't have any need to say so, still it is done, for truth is not bound,,, it is about dropping the shell of 'I-ness' and reaching beyond it. Theism also makes a part of it, but it again is not the necessary condition. I do it, for that's how I see it. It is about seeing pure consciousness AS IT IS. For that, you naturally become devotional.
   
  >>>3. individual speculation, whether or not it agrees
with what the vedAs say, is NOT a pramANa for a
vedAntin. 
            As Gerji said in his email. Why are you trying to make it like something based wholly on some belief set... The sages who said something in terms of all these scriptures had reached there through their own speculation, and truth can be reached through individual speculation..., for that's how it begins for almost all...slowly it drops and dissolves.... Please, don't make too much fuss with it.....
  In fact science reached relativity after Newtonion physics, and so will it reach the base of all relativity, why to alienate it. A VedAntin is one who has reached the end of Vedas (Veda-Antin)...only then he is in the Anta.... and if sticking to Vedas is what is important and not the inner truth...then there is no Anta (end) yet....
   
   
  >>>5. brahman is defined as that in which the world
originates, that in which it exists and that into
which it dissolves. 
   
  "Brahman is defined" ... Is there really any definition....Let's be reasonable now, as you are always trying to stay away from reason or speculation...how can any defintion define Brahman..... After endless speculation that's where I reached...that there can be no definition ever...Advaita has taken two approaches, either "all accepting" or "all negating." Let's accept speculation Amuthanji, also as forming the pedestal for taking a plight...
   
  >>4. the essence of all existence, the ultimate 'being'
is what is called the AtmA, not brahman.
             Amuthanji, I think you are the one who sends posts regarding Bhagvada Gita! Let's both read it again....
   
  >>9. science has nothing to do either with karma khANDa
or j~nAna khANDa.
          jnAna khAnDa....Amuthanji says..Ocean is separate from its waves....waves are not a part of the ocean....Science is not a part of jnAna...It has nothing to do...
  It is like humans have nothing to do with pure consciuosness...Only that science could not introduce that truth...they say...there is nothing to do with it...
   
  11. a free philosopher and/or one who is not an Astika ought not call himself a 'vedAntin'.
  Freedom is the goal...if a philosopher has reached that freedom, then there is no need to call himself anything... It is like that truth, which is AS IT IS...call whatever you may...

12. vedAntin-s don't speculate.
            vedAntins don't speculate....Yes, they don't, that's very true....but they reach there only after endless speculation....only then mind calms down when all its wandering, seeking and speculating becomes supportless....not before that...
   
  Pranaams
  Manish
   
   
   
   
   
  Amuthan <aparyap at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
  Aditya,

i really don't have the time to type big mails right
now. all this thesis writing and project completion
stuff is taking hell a lot of time. hows urs going on?

i'll just state some discrete set of statements which
hopefully answer in a nutshell all ur questions. but i
definitely want to talk with u tete-a-tete either
during lunch or dinner sometime this week (if possible
today) to get things straight. let me know ur
convenience (off the list).

1. a 'vedAntin' is necessarily an Astika.
2. an Astika is one believes in the apauruSheyatva of
the vedAs and hence in their infallibility on issues
related to dharma and brahman.

3. individual speculation, whether or not it agrees
with what the vedAs say, is NOT a pramANa for a
vedAntin. 

4. the essence of all existence, the ultimate 'being'
is what is called the AtmA, not brahman.
5. brahman is defined as that in which the world
originates, that in which it exists and that into
which it dissolves. 
6. Atmabrahmaikya, which is fundamental to advaita,
means that the above mentioned source is the self
itself.
7. according to advaita vedAnta, this cannot be
established by means other than the vedAs. 

8. karma khANDa is different from j~nAna khANDa.
9. science has nothing to do either with karma khANDa
or j~nAna khANDa.
10. if at all there is any necessity to club science
and vedAnta, it is only j~nAna khANDa which can be
talked of as being more fundamental than science. 

11. a free philosopher and/or one who is not an Astika
ought not call himself a 'vedAntin'.

12. vedAntin-s don't speculate.

-- amudan.



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